r/worldnews Sep 29 '22 Silver 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1

Russian Soldier Told Girlfriend He Was Ordered to Kill Civilians: NYT Feature Story

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u/Icy-Relationship-427 Sep 29 '22

"Kill any civilian that walks by and drag them into the forest. ... I've already become a murderer. that's why I don't want to kill any more people, especially ones I will have to look in the eyes."

Holy cow.

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u/SilentSamurai Sep 29 '22

This is why I think Russia will become even more hostile through the course of this war.

Putin losing power, even handing it off to an ally risks him being sent to the Hague to answer for war crimes.

It's truly horrible to keep hearing about Ukraine finding more mass graves in recaptured territory, it seems that this isn't happening with just a few units.

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u/spinyfever Sep 29 '22

The Russian way to to get more and more brutal as they start getting on the back foot. It's been shown in every conflict they have been in.

When they start losing they crank the brutality up to 10.

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u/strangepostinghabits Sep 29 '22

Brutality is always the fallback of people who are bad at finesse, and the russian army doesn't have a shred of finesse. They think they do, and they try finessing, but it always goes the same way because their entire army doctrine, their vehicles and their weapons are literally only good for brutality.

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u/lifeissisyphean Sep 29 '22

As a high school lit teacher of mine was so fond of saying, “violence is the last resort of the incompetent…..”

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

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u/rayui Sep 29 '22

And, "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Orwell.

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u/Ripberger7 Sep 29 '22

The problem is that they started off being brutal in the first push toward Kiev, the first week of the war. If the first guys you send in are digging mass graves for the civilians they’ve killed, where the hell do you go from there?

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u/Zankeru Sep 29 '22

We are talking about a cold war spy who came to power by bombing his own countrymen. Literally nothing is below him. Tactical nukes deployed to toddler daycares is not out of the running.

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u/syn4pt1c83 Sep 29 '22

They still have tactical nukes and the good, old ‚throw people at them until they can’t anymore‘ left. That last one, they carried out during WW2 quite successfully. One of the reasons they had the highest death count of all allied forces. I doubt this would work nowadays though.

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u/SupremeDictatorPaul Sep 29 '22

A lot of places will turn it up to 10. Russia will crank it up to 11.

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u/Saucepanmagician Sep 29 '22

Worse things will be uncovered when Mariupol is retaken, I'm afraid.

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u/Cybergazer Sep 29 '22

I remember a few months back the Ukrainians were talking about hosting Eurovision in Mariupol. They later said it probably won't happen due to the war being so drawn out.

I genuinely wonder if that city can even be considered "alive" at this point...

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u/SilentSamurai Sep 29 '22

I hate to agree but I can't imagine anything else. That city must be a graveyard.

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u/mejok Sep 29 '22

At my job we started an initiative to hire Ukrainian refugees. Recently one of our managers was interviewing one of them and asked why he wanted to work for us and he said something like, “because I have to find a new place to live because my city, my home…they no longer exist.” He was from Mariupol.

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u/FUTURE10S Sep 29 '22

That drama theatre is still a graveyard, I don't think the bodies of children were ever removed from the rubble.

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u/406highlander Sep 29 '22

I seem to recall reading that the Russians poured concrete into the rubble to permanently entomb any evidence. But I'm not sure it was the theatre that I read that about.

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u/nyc98 Sep 29 '22

It was the drama theater. Construction workers were complaining about the smell and said they were waiting for bleach to be poured in before the concrete to stop the smell. There are hundreds of people there, mostly women and children. russians already had several concerts there (I understand right in front of the theater but from photos it looked like they used inside for some performances as well.

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u/Kjartanski Sep 29 '22

Id pay to have that concrete excavated..

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u/5inthepink5inthepink Sep 29 '22

All in good time. I shudder to think of the full extent of the crimes that will be revealed as Russia continues to be driven back.

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u/NOT_PC_Principal Sep 29 '22

Yeah, Russia is waging a genocidal war against Ukrainians.

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u/hexhex Sep 29 '22

That’s exactly why it HAS to be retaken.

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u/Cybergazer Sep 29 '22

I wonder what will happen if and when the Ukrainians manage to retake all of their lost territory. So the frontline will be literally along the borders to Russia.

Will a peace agreement be arranged and signed? Will they go on the offensive against Russia? Will Russia become so desperate they do something even worse?

As much as I hope that Ukraine will be able to retake all the lost ground. I am also dreading this conflict to potentially escalate further each day. After all, a brainwashed people led by a leader that seems to be willing to go through with some seriously fucked up decisions is not a good story to be told.

I thought history had taught us to do better than our predecessors from up to a hundred years ago. How naive of me to think that.

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u/ShouldersofGiants100 Sep 29 '22

When they retake their borders, most likely the war just... peters out. Russia loses so much equipment when retreating that they'll lack the ability for a counter offensive, while Ukraine is unlikely to launch incursions on Russia (other than artillery and airstrikes) so as to maintain international support. But Putin can't admit defeat or sign a peace (he wouldn't even admit there was a war) and would most likely go on a propaganda blitz to spin the loss. Though the odds of him actually living through it are low—his successor or the ones who will pick one will more than likely kill him once the war is lost, then blame everything on him and exit immediately.

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u/f1del1us Sep 29 '22

You know the world is fucked when geopolitics is playing out exactly how your 3am Civ games play out

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u/CompSciBJJ Sep 29 '22

At least Ghandi doesn't have nukes or it'd all be over already

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u/pipnina Sep 29 '22

Assuming that Putin doesn't do something stupid when Ukraine re-enters Crimea, I personally think Ukraine will just hold the line near the border while Russia flops around like a dead fish trying to get back in for a month or two before peace talks happen, even if Ukraine is willing to hold them immediately after getting their territory back.

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u/f1del1us Sep 29 '22

risks him being sent to the Hague

He will off himself long before he will ever set foot in a court to answer for his crimes, do not worry

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u/Roflkopt3r Sep 29 '22

Putin losing power, even handing it off to an ally risks him being sent to the Hague to answer for war crimes.

He doesn't give a shit about that. He's fucked either way if there is a coup, being held accountable to international law is like #89813 on the list of his concerns.

There is so much more corruption that could be unveiled before the Russian people, and so many worse fates than a European cell that can befall a disposed Russian tyrant.

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u/zakats Sep 29 '22

At some point, they'll point their guns at the ones giving the orders.

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u/BrightSkyFire Sep 29 '22

Nah. What's happening is Russian command is purposefully making every soldier guilty of warcrimes. The more warcrimes committed, the less and less empathy/patience Ukraine will have for enemy forces, and the more and more the immoral unity of the Russian forces will be galvanized. The collective responsibility will make Russian forces fight harder - because they know what awaits them if they surrender or are captured. Some fragging will occur, but less than you'd expect.

It's a strategy that replaces traditional morale with associated culpability. Survival instinct is strong, and people will ultimately choose to ally with their own government - no matter how immoral it is - when they know how heinous the other side considers them.

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u/Frodojj Sep 29 '22

Violent gangs often use the same thing. They initiate new recruits by making them do some unspeakable act of violence, such as executing rival gangster or even a “civilian.” It robs the new guy of their humanity and makes them rely on the gang for protection… not just from the government but from the revenge by the victim’s friends and family. Same old story the oppressors used to control their stormtroopers.

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u/Rainboq Sep 29 '22

Imperial Japan did a lot of this with their troops. The chain of command was enforced with brutal beatings and they forced the soldiers to commit atrocities so they'd be terrified of receiving similar treatment when they surrender.

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u/Bladelink Sep 29 '22

Yep. How'd that work out for Japan, by the way?

For anyone curious, I'm joking. What happened is that allied soldiers just executed Japanese wounded and surrendering without mercy, because the Japanese had broken down the restraint provided by honorable surrender and respect for your enemy. It leads to the losing side (ie the Russians) just being liquidated on the battlefield.

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u/f1del1us Sep 29 '22

What happened is that allied soldiers just executed Japanese wounded and surrendering without mercy, because the Japanese had broken down the restraint provided by honorable surrender and respect for your enemy.

I'd like to know more, I've never heard this. Heard of the Dachau Trainyard Massacre, but not on the Pacific front.

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u/warfrogs Sep 29 '22

It's too late for me to do a whole write up but Dan Carlin's Hardcore History has a great breakdown about a lot of Japan's atrocities in WW2. From the Bataan Death March, to the rape and massacre in Manila, to Unit 731 Japan was known for their brutality. However, in particular, they'd have their soldiers practice bayonets on live POWs, would execute POWs with swords and compete to see who could kill the most, and would feign surrender before blowing themselves and their would be captors up with a grenade. It eventually meant to never trust a surrender.

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u/xeromage Sep 29 '22

It's that kompromat doctrine they use in the political sphere just applied to the military. Weaponized evil.

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u/Arkhenstone Sep 29 '22

There is a factor you forgot in morale. Ukraine morale is so high because they have international recognition on their actions. Zelensky provide surrendering clear intentions because he knows war has evolved. Killing a pow without justice would be known and would lower the sympathy and help from the world around, which did proved is more than enough for their small country to reverse the Russian army. So it's not like in 194x when every action was not that much reported, and transformed by media. Today most people can get the truth, even being far from the conflict. Russia lost this war already just because this time most of international scene doesn't want to trade with them anymore.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

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u/spezisdumb Sep 29 '22 Helpful

Russians are now claiming that all the civilian vehicles they shot at were secretly Ukrainian soldiers in civilian clothes. You really can't win with people who think that way. They will deny and deflect their crimes no matter what evidence you show them.

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u/rosencrantz2014 Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Remember the civilian plane bombed on 2014? Russia said that the bodies were not fresh enough, meaning the plane was full of dead people before it was shot down. This guys are bad liars.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

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u/ShadyGuy_ Sep 29 '22

They're not trying to lie convincingly. Every time they lie it's just a variation of the Shaggy defense ('it wasn't me'). If you just keep repeating the same thing over and over maybe you ll tire them out enough so that they'll leave you alone.

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u/ContributionExpress5 Sep 29 '22

Yeah their strategy is called "firehose of falsehood". They don't even need people to belief their bullshit, and they don't even care about internal consistency of their stories. They flood the public with so much false and misleading information in an attempt to erode general trust in reports, media etc. until people can no longer distinguish between facts and 'alternative facts'. Certain western politicians took a lesson from this playbook too.

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u/ctothel Sep 29 '22

With the added bonus that blatantly lying and it not mattering is a conspicuous show of power.

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u/wengerboys Sep 29 '22

They just have to provide a alternative narrative to the truth some their people can just go along with.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22 edited 9d ago

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u/Ortochromaticrainbow Sep 29 '22

Bellingcat made an excellent podcast on their open source investigation of flight MH17, the civilian plane that was shot down by Russian forces. Highly recommended; they are also addressing Russian disinformation strategies and counter-evidence: Bellingcat Podcast: MH17, Episode 1 Guide: The People Who Fell From the Sky

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u/Skullerprop Sep 29 '22

Russia said

They let loose a lot of scenarios in the span of a few days just to confuse the public opinion. Just the ones I remember:

- an Ukrainian missile downed the airliner

- an Ukrainian Su-27 did it

- an American F-4 Phantom did it (while showing some footage from Iran where an Iranian F-4 trails an IL-76 tanker that crashes on accident)

- it's Ukraine's fault because the downing took place over its territory

- Ukrainian An-24 loaded with already dead bodies flew as bait

- lot of youtube animations showing how the separatists had no means in the world to down that airliner, so it must have been the Ukrainians.

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u/Chagdoo Sep 29 '22

Firehose propaganda. Spray it out and see what sticks.

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u/The_Krambambulist Sep 29 '22

The amount if twists during that time says enough about how serious their theories were.

Ow and all the deleted tweets from Russian backed fighters thwt they downed a plane, certainly didnt help either.

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u/redditadmindumb87 Sep 29 '22

Ok lets assume the plane was already full of dead bodies.

Why is it ok to shoot down a commercial airliner?

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u/Magdalan Sep 29 '22

The Dutch will never forget MH17, this week it was in the news (again) that officials are probbing other country's to not forget it either. Justice is still not served.

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u/nagrom7 Sep 29 '22

Neither will Australia. Australian was the 3rd most represented nationality on board behind Dutch and Malaysian, and several of the passengers were doctors and experts on their way to a HIV conference in Melbourne.

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u/yaki_torii Sep 29 '22

That's when you need to stop caring about convincing them and start worrying about punishing them for their crimes.

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u/CilantroMarshmallows Sep 29 '22

That's the approach most justice systems use; the perpetrators unwavering belief in their innocence weighs nothing against evidence.

Hang the war criminals where all can see.

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u/Earlier-Today Sep 29 '22

Ukraine doesn't have the death penalty.

They even treat wounded Russians when they capture them.

Russia is using every bit of brutality and cruelty they can think of, Ukraine is responding with a massively stronger resolve while still holding to the rules of war and even showing compassion.

And it's Ukraine that's winning.

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u/Tom1255 Sep 29 '22

Ukraine kinda have to adhere to the rules of war with how they positioned themselves in this situation. They want to be seen as hard, but fair warriors. It fits their political goals of getting closer to the west, be it NATO/EU, and also doesn't make Russians propaganda any easier, because Russian PoWs are treated in overwhelming majority by care and respect in Ukraine, despite Ukraine fighting for their independence.

That's why Russian society doesn't want to fight this war for Putin. All these Russian PoWs can talk to their families, and tell them how really things look like up there. And the word spreads among Russian population. Russian propaganda is falling apart thanks to this.

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u/PlateImpossible191 Sep 29 '22

Correct, Tom. Showing they are better human beings is a key factor for Ukraine. If they started mistreating POWs or committing other war crimes in response to the Russians they would lose support from most people around the world. It would also be akward for politics in EU and NATO as now we'd have to explain why we would be supporting war criminals.

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u/JimWilliams423 Sep 29 '22

That's the approach most justice systems use; the perpetrators unwavering belief in their innocence weighs nothing against evidence.

Mens Rea.

In high profile cases in the US, at least, it seems like waaaay more weight is given to mens rea than ought to be.

For example:

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u/scummy_shower_stall Sep 29 '22

Aaah, affluenza by another name...

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Sep 29 '22

Who in Russia will punish them

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Sep 29 '22

No one. They'll only face justice if they're captured or killed by the Ukrainian military.

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u/bstump104 Sep 29 '22

The information I've seen shows that the Ukrainians are not mistreating their captives. It could be propaganda, but the prisoner exchange pictures has skin and bones prisoners coming from Russia and full able bodied prisoners coming from Ukraine.

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u/Mental_Medium3988 Sep 29 '22

No one said ukraine was mistreating them. But them facing trial and humane imprisonment is them facing justice.

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u/GBJI Sep 29 '22

Well, they'll have to go back there. That's quite a punishment by itself, and it will keep getting harsher and harsher as Russia goes deeper and deeper into the grave it's digging for itself.

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u/secretdrug Sep 29 '22

Russians are now claiming that all the civilian vehicles they shot at were secretly Ukrainian soldiers in civilian clothes

yes yes, so why are they shooting at "ukrainian soldiers" on ukrainian soil in the first place hmmm?

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u/powerbottomflash Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

All jokes aside but Russian state propaganda claims that Ukraine has been taken over by the Nazi army backed by NATO and the civilians are terrorised by the Nazi regime and want to be saved. So everytime the Russian army commits a war crime on the Ukrainian soil, Russian media reports it as another atrocity that was committed by those aforementioned Nazi soldiers. Bucha? That was Ukrainian Nazi soldiers torturing and killing their own people. POW camp blown up? Ukrainian Nazis. Russians firing at hospitals, schools, civilians houses? Well, that was because Nazis were using those locations as their bases and armories and using civilians as shields. Also, those Nazis aren’t just going to stop at terrorising Ukraine, they want to take over and “rape” Russia, and they’re already coming so that’s why men need to be mobilised.

This kind of shit is being fed to the population all over TV, in newspapers and magazines, on social media. And as you know any media reporting another point of you is banned, blocked and inaccessible without VPN.

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u/Plasibeau Sep 29 '22

Saw a 'from the front lines' clip on Youtube where a journalist was interviewing two old woman in a recently liberated village. One of them said that the Russian soldiers who kept passing through would stop and keep demanding they give up the Nazi's, to stop protecting them. So it's not just the civilians getting their heads pumped full of garbage.

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u/PropOnTop Sep 29 '22

With the dissolution of boundary between truth and falsehood, the regime can do anything - kill its own soldiers and claim they were Nazis, kill and imprison their own citizens at will and either claim it was done by Nazis or that the citizens were Nazis.

Just like the old times. Can't teach an old dog new tricks it seems.

Worst of all, once all this blows over and the Russian population wakes up, Russia will feel even more shame and less self-confidence than before, setting the scene for the rise of another monster autocrat 20-30 years down the line...

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u/randomways Sep 29 '22

I mean, the Russian soldiers are literally civilians at this point if reports are true.

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u/alefore Sep 29 '22

Because the soldiers, uh... checks notes ... ah, da, these Ukrainian soldiers are, hmm, Nazis, you see?

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u/iltopop Sep 29 '22

It's important to catalogue and make the info be out there still. If Putin shot a baby on camera in his nuke bunker he'd claim NATO had someone get plastic surgery and sneak in and do it to make him look bad.

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u/King_Zhou Sep 29 '22 Helpful Take My Energy

‘Putin Is a Fool’: Intercepted Calls Reveal Russian Army in Disarray

Gift link to NYT article which includes more recordings and transcripts. Great read and worth listening to. Chilling stuff

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u/facherone Sep 29 '22

Thanks, this should be its own post!

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u/NotsoNewtoGermany Sep 29 '22

This is the post it should have been. There one at the head of the thread is just business insider summarizing this article.

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u/NotsoNewtoGermany Sep 29 '22

I don't understand, and I never will, why it's always Business Insider. It's always Business Insider and all they ever do is repeat other publications. Why not post to this?

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

Free to view. Proper outlets only let you view so many articles

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u/PM_ME_PSN_CODES-PLS Sep 29 '22

Thanks for gifting that article. That was a good read. And gives a better insight to the whole mess of this invasion. I don't feel bad for the Russian troops, but it's in stark contrast to what they are reporting on the Russian news (no big surprise there).

No wonder this is such a clusterfuck.

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u/hiimsubclavian Sep 29 '22

wtf they didn't even set up checkpoints. They were just standing on the side of the road shooting anyone that goes by. What does that even accomplish?

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u/Phazon2000 Sep 29 '22

Removes Ukrainians and ensures they don’t come back so they can relocate Russian citizens there.

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u/TetsuoS2 Sep 29 '22

makes it harder for soldiers to defect/surrender as well.

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u/Xenjael Sep 29 '22

People still denying theres genocide afoot.

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u/notablack Sep 29 '22

At one point they are so tigger happy you can see them shoot their own prone marksman...

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u/autotldr BOT Sep 29 '22

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot)


One Russian soldier in Kyiv recounted in a phone call how his commander ordered troops to kill Ukrainian civilians to conceal their locations, which is a war crime under international law.

In one call to his girlfriend, a Russian soldier identified only by his first name, Sergey, said his commander had given an order to take Ukrainian civilians to the forest to execute them.

In another recording between Sergey and his girlfriend, the Russian soldier said a captain ordered the execution of three men, in part because their unit didn't have enough food to feed themselves.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: civilian#1 Russian#2 soldier#3 war#4 Ukraine#5

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u/MrRoboto159 Sep 29 '22

If you're ordered to kill civilians, you kill the commander. js.

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u/Unlucky-Apartment347 Sep 29 '22

I expect lots of commanders to get killed in the coming weeks. Untrained, poorly equipped, fearful young men sent to die for no cause. What else are they to do?

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u/Zirenth Sep 29 '22

young men

Have you seen the same pictures I've seen? Those aren't "young" men.

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u/roamingandy Sep 29 '22

I would've thought old men are more likely to think for themselves and get rid of a shit commander ordering them to their death.

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u/Unlucky-Apartment347 Sep 29 '22

Maybe, but less internet savvy and more brainwashed.

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u/-r-a-f-f-y- Sep 29 '22

lol think of all the old men voting in America, they love fascism.

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u/Notarussianbot2020 Sep 29 '22

Put a gun in their hand and send them to fight for Russia. You'll find very quickly what giant pussies they are.

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u/Aggravating-Wrap4861 Sep 29 '22

/r/hermancainaward showed how effective they were fighting a disease.

Even at the end most of them couldn't admit they were wrong. Oh well.

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u/Unlucky-Apartment347 Sep 29 '22

Young ones all left the country?

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u/upsidedownbackwards Sep 29 '22

Yea, they went to Ukraine.

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u/coredumperror Sep 29 '22

A handful of oldsters does not mean the vast majority of these poor draftees aren't young.

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u/korben2600 Sep 29 '22

Right? It's not exactly inspiring confidence when both the conscripts and the officers are middle aged men with beer bellies. Meal Team Six reporting for duty!

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u/godtogblandet Sep 29 '22

What else are they to do?

What Russians have done for centuries. Die by the thousands for their Tsar. We are nowhere close to revolution numbers in terms of dead Russians yet. In fact we are probably of by at least another million.

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u/Unlucky-Apartment347 Sep 29 '22

Perhaps the internet can change that.

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u/Odd_Local8434 Sep 29 '22

No revolution in Russia is coming, but they might lose some territory. Chechens, Georgians, and more might decide they can capitalize on the collapse of the Russian army and declare independence/invade.

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u/skredditt Sep 29 '22

I read about this of boomers drafted to Vietnam. Lots of fragging.

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u/Unlucky-Apartment347 Sep 29 '22

Yes. Another shit war when old men sent other peoples kids to die for a dubious cause. LBJ, Nixon, McNamara, Westmorland all POS.

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u/PleasinglyReasonable Sep 29 '22

Kissinger is still alive.

Pricks live forever.

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u/ScoobyDoNot Sep 29 '22

The old war criminal has been suggesting Ukraine should cede territory to Russia to end the war.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/24/henry-kissinger-ukraine-russia-territory-davos/

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u/West_Brom_Til_I_Die Sep 29 '22

If you're ordered to kill civilians, you kill the commander. html.

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u/JohnGB Sep 29 '22

The Nuremberg principles state that you have a duty to disobey an unlawful order. If soldiers killed civilians in orders from their commanders, ALL of them are guilty of war crimes.

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u/Asleep_Astronaut396 Sep 29 '22

Everything is a location, my god the aftermath from this war will go on forever. Nazi's weren't safe but now we have more ways to catch them. Fucking monsters.

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u/MagicMushroomFungi Sep 29 '22

And they often appear to have cellphones to record and privately communicate with. And be tracked with.
(I'm surprised they seem to have them so often. I wonder if the soldiers smuggle or steal them ? Cellphones wouldn't normally be allowed in a war zone would they ? )

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u/WhynotstartnoW Sep 29 '22

(I'm surprised they seem to have them so often. I wonder if the soldiers smuggle or steal them ? Cellphones wouldn't normally be allowed in a war zone would they ? )

Even if command prohibits cell phones being taken with them, they're stealing toilets and clotheswashing machines putting them in ammo crates and shipping them home. I do imagine it's much easier to steal a cellphone with a functioning sim to call friends and family with than removing a washing machine or toilet from it's plumbing and packing it out. Also explains why it's so common to have these intercepted calls.

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u/lewger Sep 29 '22

The interviewed one of the older women in the towns recently taken back by Ukraine (border town, Russian speaking (the demographic the Russians are trying to flip) and one of the stories was a solider asked for a phone to call his mother and stole her sim (also murdered a bunch of people for stuff like turning lights on after dark).

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u/CankerLord Sep 29 '22

I mean, this is the kind of army that makes their reserve assemble their own medkit. You could probably could smuggle your girlfriend into the war if she was up for it.

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u/northshore12 Sep 29 '22

makes their reserve assemble their own medkit

While both hilarious and a huge red flag about Russia's physical capability to provide the most basic elements needed to win a war, this is also flat-out bad advice. InRangeTV demonstrates that there is no scenario where having a feminine hygiene product of any kind will offer even marginal benefit to a gunshot wound.

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u/gayfrogscientologist Sep 29 '22

Let's be honest, they know it's not going to do shit. They're only telling the reserves to bring feminine hygiene products as a means of first aid to pacify them for sending them to the front without any first aid at all. All they care about is someone to pull a trigger, once a soldier becomes injured they couldn't care less about them.

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u/Rainboq Sep 29 '22

Yeah but tourniquets, chest seals, and gauze are expensive and the supply officers already sold them to afford to eat something other than expired rations.

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u/kasuke06 Sep 29 '22

Like assemble as in put it in the box so they don't have to scramble through it in the heat of battle, or like "go buy some hello kitty bandaids, vodka and whatever vitamins you can get for rubles."

One of those is smart-ish or at least has some basis in logic. The other is fucking depressing. Also kind of hilarious.

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u/dragonsvomitfire Sep 29 '22

Like, go buy some hello kitty bandaids and don't forget to ask mama for some of her tampons to plug your inevitable bullet holes.

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u/StonccPad-3B Sep 29 '22

Which will not work by the way, a tampon doesn't exert enough pressure to stop arterial bleeding.

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u/Terrkas Sep 29 '22

The first one is not smart at all. If you get wounded and your friend has to scramble through your kit, it takes to much time. What you really want is standardize it and train people how to use it. Though, that would require russia to train soldiers.

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u/korben2600 Sep 29 '22

Don't think you even need to ask, it was most definitely the latter:

Russian mobilized men asked to buy pads and tampons, take care of themselves on their own

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u/Odd_Local8434 Sep 29 '22

The Russians are now deploying tanks with armor so thin it can be punched through by a 50 caliber bullet. They are running out of everything.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

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u/Just_wanna_talk Sep 29 '22

his commander ordered troops to kill Ukrainian civilians to conceal their locations

Yes, let's kill all these civilians to keep a secret that Ukraine probably already knows because of satellite surveillance.

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u/VegasKL Sep 29 '22

in part because their unit didn't have enough food to feed themselves.

Ummm .. did they eat these people?

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u/Bluest_waters Sep 29 '22

so they can't feed or properly equip their soldier now and yet they called up a bunch more raw, untrained, unmotivated troops to throw on the front lines?

Absolute insanity

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u/Minimum-Passenger-29 Sep 29 '22

Absolute insanity

I wish there were any hope of ever understanding any of this mess, but I truly doubt it.

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u/Viatos Sep 29 '22

no, they were prisoners who the unit had to feed as long as they wanted them alive. the unit started running low on food, so they killed their prisoners.

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u/coyotzin Sep 29 '22

Not even that, they arrested them, strip searched them and then the captain ordered them to be shot instead of freeing or taking them prisoners; the former to prevent them revealing their location and the latter because they couldn't feed them.

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u/Czeris Sep 29 '22

"a Russian soldier identified only by his first name, Sergey"

That'll narrow it down.

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u/domino7 Sep 29 '22

No, it's not because they were going to eat their victims, it's because they didn't have enough food to feed their prisoners, on account of not having enough food for themselves.

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u/yolk3d Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

I thought this at first, but the Ukrainians were apparently civilians. Are they keeping civilians as POW?

Edit: Please read replies before replying with the same reply. Reply.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

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u/Happy-Fun-Ball Sep 29 '22

But the hunt for russian war criminals will never end

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u/JollyGreenGiraffe Sep 29 '22

Well "Sergey" narrows down who this could've been.

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u/doc23doc23doc23 Sep 29 '22

God damn tldrbot you're giving us more succinct, relevant info than humans. Props.

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u/reshp2 Sep 29 '22

The article doesn't even have the worst of the calls from the NYT piece:

There is a forest where the division headquarters is. I walked into it and saw a sea of corpses in civilian clothing. A sea. I’ve never seen so many corpses in my fucking life. It's just completely fucked. You can't see where they end.

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u/goinghardinthepaint Sep 29 '22

The online NYTs piece is chilling. Hearing the audio and the mix of emotions between the Russians to their loved ones is infuriating in some places but heartbreaking in others.

Probably a ton of work to intercept, translate, and curate these correspondence.

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u/whomstvde Sep 29 '22

The interception part isn't that hard, since they are using Ukrainian telecomunications.

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u/the_star_lord Sep 29 '22

Surely we (our governments and army's) can get satellite images and they would be aware of said locations based on intercepted calls?

Or am I too hopeful that we are able to record these crimes.

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u/bezji Sep 29 '22

Good luck seeing anything throught the trees, even with military satelites

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u/yoyoJ Sep 29 '22

Jesus Christ

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u/unrulyhoneycomb Sep 29 '22

This has been known for months...

I guess the best we can do is to continue to publicize this and make it known.

Russia doesn't seem to believe that Geneva Conventions apply to them anymore though. Very good motivation for sending the highest amount of arms possible to Ukraine, to stop them the only way that they know - with force that hits them like a brick wall. Or like a HIMARS rocket coming in at 2200 MPH for a direct hit.

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u/SadlyReturndRS Sep 29 '22

Rule #1 of all international relations:

International Law is optional for all nuclear powers.

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u/moonfox1000 Sep 29 '22

Militarily you’re correct, but this war is already set make all of Russia toxic to international business for decades. Once the EU moves on to cleaner energy, Russia may never recover, it’s too easy for talented Russians to move elsewhere and no reason for them to stay.

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u/mr_indigo Sep 29 '22

They'll put exit visas in place.

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u/bric12 Sep 29 '22

Militarily you’re correct, but this war is already set make all of Russia toxic to international business for decades

Sure, but only because Russian businesses were seized and cut off from the rest of the world. Companies will care about future risk when debating investing in Russia, not human rights violations. As terrible as they are, the only real cost to human rights violations and violating the Geneva convention is ticking the rest of the world off.

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u/Glesenblaec Sep 29 '22

Even in the first week we had videos of Russian soldiers indiscriminately gunning down civilians. They'd be obviously unarmed, just minding their own business, the Russians drive by and start shooting, or try to run them over.

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u/RedPandemik Sep 29 '22

Never forget the video of a man, his son and their dog that'd been shot. The kid recorded the dad getting shot after their dog had been shot by Russians. The kid hides and the video after is bad. Then later footage was revealed of Ukrainian soldiers discovering the scene. They tossed the son and father in a ditch nearby.

For what?

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u/Nessidy Sep 29 '22

The bittersweet update: the son actually survived. He appeared in a video, describing that event to the press and preparing a funeral for his dad.

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u/yellekc Sep 29 '22

Russia is committing genocide. I support not just arming them, but sending our military in to save their population from torture and murder.

Based on polling, I know this is a minority position, at only about 35% last March, but if it ever happens, it will probably be the most just cause we have sent soldiers to since WWII.

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u/EvilLegalBeagle Sep 29 '22

I think the current policy is working and is the best policy. Arm and assist Ukraine with weapons, training, cash, whatever. Sort of halfway house sure and not much succor to Ukrainians being shot / eaten, but Russia in retreat, protests on the home front, Putin surely a hair away from being politely asked to step down and absolutely no excuse to use Nukes.

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u/bjornbamse Sep 29 '22

Give air defense systems like Patriots to Ukraine and Ukrainians will drive Russia out themselves.

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u/helloitsme1011 Sep 29 '22

Yeah but we don’t want the nukes to start flying

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u/DreadPirate777 Sep 29 '22

Russia is pointing out that the Geneva Conventions are not enforced fast enough.

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u/Candygramformrmongo Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Is there really any doubt about this any more? Pretty much a given. Putin gave the butchers of Bucha a “guards” accolade ffs.

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u/tomorrow509 Sep 29 '22

A dark chapter in world history is unfolding. I hope it ends soon with justice delivered and the truth known for future generations.

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u/MrWetPoopz Sep 29 '22

Unfortunately I think we will learn much more as the years pass. I shutter to think of what may be occurring in these Filtration Camps.

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u/GastricallyStretched Sep 29 '22

We already know some things.

Beatings, torture with electricity and killings have been reported by people interrogated in the filtration camps.

In May 2022, videos with Ukrainian civilians apologizing to Russian soldiers, with some of them saying that they had undergone a "denazification course", have appeared on social media. In an interview to Current Time TV, human rights activist Pavel Lisyansky said that the "courses" are often accompanied by physical violence, moral pressure and humiliation, and compared them to the "re-education" of Uyghurs by the Chinese government. Lisyansky also said that he knows three or four cases of Ukrainian civilians getting killed and their documents destroyed after they had a conflict with their "curator".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_filtration_camps_for_Ukrainians

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u/badgerette86 Sep 29 '22

If the media started showing the graphic war crimes of russia on the local news every single night the public would demand more action.

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u/lennybird Sep 29 '22

Yeah that's not happening anymore, sadly. That lesson was learned during Vietnam.

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u/Pittsburghmetal54 Sep 29 '22

Of course they were killing civilians.

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u/Ra_In Sep 29 '22

There's a meaningful difference between soldiers deciding to kill civilians, and soldiers being ordered to kill civilians. While the frequency of civilian casualties made it easy to assume the latter, having evidence that there were orders is significant.

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u/tnsus Sep 29 '22

So business as usual? They have been knowingly killing civilians since day 1.

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u/GreenEnergyRedditor Sep 29 '22

Doesn’t sound that different than nazi soldiers being told to clear Auschwitz at the end..

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u/ExplorerHead795 Sep 29 '22

War criminals going to war crime

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u/HealthyBits Sep 29 '22

Remember folks, this “operation” aimed at liberating Ukrainians from Nazis…

now they just admit they went there to kill everyone.

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u/coldstone87 Sep 29 '22

This is just sickness. Killing civilians, Schools, malls why? Why seriously why?

Why should a common man suffer for no fault of his?

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u/gottspalter Sep 29 '22

Because there is a “racial” component to this war. Somehow Ukrainians are both sub-Slavs for them but also “the same people”

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

Same goes for other minorities in russia. Recently there has been a viral status of some russian chick which went roughly:

"Why do we keep sending our russian men to the war? Why don't we send more of those dirty (черножопые, literally dark-assed) [she then proceeds to list minorities]? They owe us for living on our land, for eating our bread. Each one of these nationalities have become civilized thanks to us.

Its also a fun fact that officials cant be bothered to pronounce these people's names so they use fucking numbers for administrative purposes.

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u/Difficult-Muffin-777 Sep 29 '22

I wonder if they remember that, "I was just following orders" is not a valid defense for war crimes

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u/bennitori Sep 29 '22

No, but I imagine verbalizing it was wrong and trying to leave is going to get them more leniency than the ones that unapologetically embraced it. I'm not expecting all of them to get treated like Oskar Schindler. But knowing you did wrong and genuinely repenting and helping those you wronged is going to earn you a lot more sympathy than being brainwashed will.

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u/Davey_F Sep 29 '22

“The calls reveal the bleak reality Russian soldiers faced in the early weeks of the war.”

Wait til you hear about the bleak reality the Ukrainian people have faced you dopey fuck. Who writes this shit?

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u/1011011011001 Sep 29 '22

I know this seems very obvious for people who live outside of Russia, but please remember the fact that there are millions here who still think that the only things getting destroyed are “military objects” and the only people being killed belong to the Ukrainian army. Not trying to take the blame away from those who choose to stay clueless or let themselves be fed propaganda, but a big chunk of those who got mobilized willingfully firmly believed whatever was said on TV. It’s an eye opener and should be celebrated, in a way - the fact that they were lied to by the government is going to shake the absolute trust those people have for it. And, when people stop buying into bullshit their government spews… you know what happens next

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u/ricnilotra Sep 29 '22

american movies are gonna start using russians as the bad guys again soon.

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u/lastpump Sep 29 '22

At least Germany have spent 80 years righting wrongs and improving their image in the world. I think russia wont do that. They will be seen like this for centuries unless a total regime change and dynamic world leader runs it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

Surely this puts no doubts in our minds that Bucha was a Russian operation.

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u/bennitori Sep 29 '22

Wait, was that ever a question in the first place?

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u/jiquvox Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Yeah I fucking hate those “debates”.

When you reach that level, it becomes arguing for the sake of arguing and enforcing a political agenda regardless of the facts. The “smoking gun” becomes an ever shifting goalpost. Nothing will ever be good enough.

Yeah Russia invaded Georgia, invaded Ukraine a first time took Crimea , shelled agreed exit corridor, blocked Ukrainian wheat to deliberately make people starve, were found on video emasculating a POW, the POWs recovered looked emaciated Auswitch-like, occupy a nuclear plant that they refuse to evacuate while incident keep happening, talked publicly of leaving scorched earth if the land didnt become Russian, mass grave in numerous cities occupied by Russia military, talked repeatedly of using nuclear weapon, etc… the list goes on and on and on and on.

But somehow it has to be proved now that the civilians murdered were not disguised militaries ? or that the mass graves that appeared in Ukrainian land occupied by Russia were the deed of Russia ??

At this point you either followed the news and already know Russia commited numerous war crimes. Or you decided you like Putin’s Russia and that nothing will ever change your mind. There will always some super-far-fetched mind numbing horseshit to say that Russia army did nothing wrong and that Putin isn’t a piece of shit.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

No, but you do get some brain-dead pro Russians saying it was faked or a Ukrainian operation.

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u/Hank3hellbilly Sep 29 '22

guy at work here in Canada thinks the Ukrainians are blowing up their own cities...

The stupid is impressive.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

I'll never forget all of the US conservatives in my life that have been tacitly pro-Russian through this entire war. I guess because Russia isn't a nice place to be gay or trans they think they are "their guys" or something. Scum of the Earth.

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u/gottspalter Sep 29 '22

It actually is. For them a bulwark against the “dangerous” shift worldwide to lgbt and womens’ rights is worth a few tens of thousands dead Slavs in Eastern Europe. Not their backyard.

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u/LostTimeAlready Sep 29 '22

Completely seriously they believe rights for people that aren't Christian White Republicans is equal to violence. That's why you're hearing them say the left is getting too violent or whatever, despite the mass shooter list being a republican leaderboard at this point.

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u/Wundei Sep 29 '22

This isn’t shocking any more, at this point it would be breaking news to report about a Russian soldier with moral behavior.

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u/Twiroxi Sep 29 '22

But ultimately he obeyed the order so no excuses...the right thing to do is to ignore the order. He is still to blame for his actions.

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u/slayer991 Sep 29 '22

They know it's wrong. They were sent to die for an old man's vanity.

"Mom,we haven’t seen a single fascist here....This war is based on a false pretense. No one needed it. We go there and people were living normal lives. Very well, like in Russia.
And now they have to live in basements. The old lady who lived near us had to live in the cellar. Can you imagine?"

"Seryozha, you can’t be so one-sided. I understand that it’s scary there and you feel bad."

"What does scary have to do with it? We all think the same thing: This war wasn’t needed."

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u/critical_pancake Sep 29 '22

This is so so sad for Ukraine, for Russia, for the world. I hope that this war becomes a wake up call to the world about the importance of territorial integrity when all the dust and blood settles.

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u/VegasKL Sep 29 '22

Not likely. If WW1 and WW2 weren't wake up calls, this won't be. Dickheads going to be dicks, it's a truth as old as history itself.

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u/flogginmama Sep 29 '22

I’ve never been someone who supports CIA assassinations. But Putin needs to fall out a window. And then be shot in the head 5 times.

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u/58eo183xu2 Sep 29 '22

To no one's surprise, considering the fact that we've literally seen dead civilians in mass graves after retaking cities.

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u/Frequent_Wheel_3084 Sep 29 '22

The very first picture from this war crime I saw was a russian tank that overrolled a civil car with an old man in it...civil terror is their business model and they are encouraged to do so!

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u/nick_shannon Sep 29 '22

Standard operating procedure for the Russian army it seems.

Rape, pillage and murder - The Russina Way!

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u/self_loathing_ham Sep 29 '22

Imagine a mafia so powerful that it becomes the government of whole country. Thats Russia. When you think of all the decisions they make in terms of a mafia instead of a real government it starts to make more sense.

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u/terynosaurus Sep 29 '22

I'm American and i used to be a homeless drug addict and i have met more vets with PTSD addicted to heroin than i would like to believe would have been possible. The horrendous but common theme amongst them - murdering innocents. Sometimes by order, sometimes at their own behest. War is heinous and all sides commit atrocities. The worst of us is in all of us. Be alert folks.

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u/WhenwasyourlastBM Sep 29 '22

Seriously. I've been reading "The body keeps score" and the kinds of things people admitted to after Vietnam really opened my eyes to what kinds of things happen on and off the battlefield.

PTSD from killing soldiers is one thing. But shame is a powerful emotion, and it's a lot harder to recover when you can't even bare admitting to yourself what you've done. Whatever happens, Russian's are going to continue suffer long after Putin is gone.

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u/Little-Derp Sep 29 '22

I remember running across an interview (maybe bbc?) a few weeks ago of an old man wanting to tell his story of the war, think he was German, or maybe French, but he was recanting him and his friends clashing with other young men with bayonets I think, and he stabbed the other young man, it was ‘him or me’ and that shit just sticks with him. Was a good interview, wish I could find it again.

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