Russia says tank promises show direct and growing Western involvement in Ukraine

[u/Rocco89]

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-tank-promises-show-092840764.html

[u/Rezlan]

They cried wolf for so long, declared since the start that they were "at war with the entirety of the NATO forces" and now some tanks are proof of a growing Western involvement? I thought they were already facing all of our armies combined!

[u/NotAnotherEmpire → u/Rezlan]

This is why nations don't normally make empty threats. The USSR was very precise about its threats so that they would have credibility.

That Russia makes outsized, indistinct threats all the time and then does nothing when ignored makes it almost impossible for them to make a credible threat.

[u/nonrandomusername17 → u/NotAnotherEmpire]

Which is super dangerous, especially when it comes to nukes.

The soviets knew to be careful about nuclear threats, because you need your opponent to listen when you say 'this is a definite red line'.

But Russia's been threatening nuclear over the drop of a hat for so long now, how are other countries to know when something genuinely is a red line?

[u/FureN- → u/nonrandomusername17]

They would detect nuclear-related movement done by Russian troops from their satellites.

[u/Yorgonemarsonb → u/FureN-]

Yeah intelligence is all up in Russias shit even prior to the war. Even more so with all the Russian intelligence officers and spies who are now trying to defect out of the corrupt shithole of a country. They’re going to know about a launch prior to seeing the nuclear related movement.

[u/SSBMUIKayle → u/FureN-]

Exactly. The public hysteria in many European countries about the threat of nuclear war is completely unfounded, and we have the intelligence to prove that it is unfounded. Putin is basically Kim 2.0, screaming about how he'll destroy the world if he doesn't get his way and just gets ignored by everyone

[u/ksck135 → u/SSBMUIKayle]

I don't see much panic, just people pretending to be top army generals on the internet.

[u/nonrandomusername17 → u/ksck135]

There is no hysteria.

That doesn't mean it's impossible that this escalates. Actual experts:

Dr. John R. Deni is a research professor at the U.S. Army War College’s Strategic Studies Institute and a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. ... For years, **many have taken for granted that Putin will stop at NATO’s borders, deterred by the promise of an Article 5 response. But *this is no longer a given** in light of the Russian leader’s belligerence and unpredictability. ... NATO’s Article 5 has not been triggered, Article 4 has — the provision of the treaty allowing member states to request consultations if they believe their “territorial integrity, political independence or security” is threatened Requesting consultations may sound weak-kneed, but this in fact carries enormous political and diplomatic weight, with the potential to trigger serious military moves. ... NATO’s primary response — made after Article 4 was invoked — has been activating the NATO Response Force and its leading element, the Very High Readiness Joint Task Force, parts of which can deploy in as little as 48 hours. Notably, the alliance has never deployed any part of the NRF for collective defense purposes, not even in 2014 when Russia first invaded Ukraine. Sending this force to the alliance’s most exposed members in Eastern Europe, even though NATO has no intention of taking part in the war, is a powerful, tangible indicator of NATO’s commitment to defend every inch of allied territory and to deter Russia from expanding the conflict. Deploying the NRF is more than symbolic; it’s a response to genuine fears that the West may have its work cut out when it comes to deterring Putin.

See also: hesitance to send Ukraine more equipment, because 'top army generals' are factoring the (remote) possibility of this escalating beyond Ukraine's borders. Not something they'd do if it was impossible.

Bad things happen every day. This getting out of hand is entirely plausible.

Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention. Salisbury, Litvinenko, MH17, the 2014 Czech depot explosion, the gas pipe line, the list goes on and on.

[u/Tihar90 → u/SSBMUIKayle]

I haven't see any hysteria mate, reddit comments aren't really representative of.. Well anything other than reddit demographics

[u/ritensk56 → u/nonrandomusername17]

There are still no-nonsense nuclear back channels. The public charade is their burner Twitter account.

[u/AuthorNathanHGreen → u/ritensk56]

Yes, and no. I don't know if you've ever had to negotiate with a party that was saying one thing in context A, and another thing in context B, but you can never trust either channel if they disagree and you'll always discover that they are influencing each other in odd ways.

You want to be crystal clear when it comes to this stuff and while you can gain short term advantage by obfuscating, in the medium term you're going to start seeing costs, and in the long term it is a losing game.

[u/nonrandomusername17 → u/AuthorNathanHGreen]

you can gain short term advantage by obfuscating, in the medium term you're going to start seeing costs, and in the long term it is a losing game.

Yep.

Russia has made a lot of mistakes, it's just that until recently they didn't know that they were mistakes. Now they're discovering them, the folly of them, slowly realising it's too late to undo them, wishing they could do them over, but realising it's too late. I expect the panic and fear must be setting in by now, even though they'll publically deny it.

This is what happens when you surround yourself with yes men and start believing your own propaganda.

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, but not necessarily in that order. And maybe, just maybe, one day acceptance.

[u/Jaysyn4Reddit → u/nonrandomusername17]

Oddly enough, Russia stopped threatening nukes about the same time the Pentagon started mentioning decapitation strikes in Moscow.

[u/SYLOH → u/Jaysyn4Reddit]

Considering how bad their air defense network is at intercepting soviet era drones, it's probably hilariously bad at intercepting actual stealth aircraft.

[u/Kronqvist → u/SYLOH]

Case in point:

“In 1987 a West German teenager shocked the world, by flying through Soviet air defences to land a Cessna aeroplane in Red Square. He was jailed for more than a year - but a quarter of a century later, he has no regrets.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20609795

[u/Subpars0up → u/Kronqvist]

Within a year of returning to Hamburg, Rust stabbed a colleague at a hospital where he worked and ended up behind bars again

The article really brushes passed this little tidbit

[u/Kronqvist → u/Subpars0up]

Awesome, glad someone else noticed that, like, wtf? Kid clearly had some mental problems, but that kinda just makes the utter lack of Russian interdiction more laughable. The dude was not a super spy, just a hormonal kid making bad decisions, that ultimately made a whole army look foolish.

[u/PM_ME_HTML_SNIPPETS → u/Kronqvist]

Not excusing his crimes, but a Westerner flying a civilian plane into Soviet Red Square, spending a year in prison, then walking away generally fine?

yeah I wouldn't have any regrets either. If he got his head right and cleaned himself up, that's a hell of a story to tell at the bars and/or your descendants

[u/Jaysyn4Reddit → u/SYLOH]

Now that we've captured an intact s400300 I expect the performance of Russia's air defense to continue to decline.

[u/WriteBrainedJR → u/Jaysyn4Reddit]

Russia talks and talks and talks, and insists on being overestimated.

The US Military often goes out of its way to make sure it is underestimated. They don't waste a lot of breath talking about operations that they know they couldn't execute.

[u/Jaysyn4Reddit → u/WriteBrainedJR]

Even better, the USA develops real counters to Russia's imagined weapon systems.

[u/Intrepid00 → u/NotAnotherEmpire]

That Russia makes outsized, indistinct threats all the time and then does nothing when ignored makes it almost impossible for them to make a credible threat.

I love how an old Russian saying has looped back to them.

[u/derekakessler → u/Intrepid00]

More than 900 Chinese "final warnings" had been issued by the end of 1964.

Hahahaha that's just great.

[u/somedumbperson55 → u/NotAnotherEmpire]

Going to have to change the saying

China’s Russia’s final warning

[u/battleofflowers → u/NotAnotherEmpire]

I truly think that western involvement would have been way less had Russia been silent this whole time.

Silence from a nuclear country is actually way more terrifying that daily threats.

[u/headshotscott → u/Rezlan]

One of their rationales was that they didn't want NATO on their borders. They have basically ensured they will get NATO on their borders.

[u/Thue → u/headshotscott]

I wonder why countries like Finland, the Baltics, Poland, and Ukraine want to join NATO. It is a mystery - we will never know. My guess is NATO mind control using fluoridated water.

[u/BeigeChocobo → u/Thue]

My money is on gay space lasers, but I agree in principle

[u/karroq → u/BeigeChocobo]

Space lizards, not lasers. Obviously.

[u/tbarr1991 → u/karroq]

Obviously its the jewish space lizard lasers.

[u/nerd4code → u/headshotscott]

They already had and have NATO on their borders ffs.

[u/JBredditaccount → u/headshotscott]

They already have 5 NATO countries on their borders and Ukraine promised to never join NATO if it would avoid the war.

Russia doesn't actually care about this. It's an empty talking point.

[u/Old_comfy_shoes → u/headshotscott]

They're just saying that. It's not their rationale. They are telling their people "NATO is bad, they are spreading and they are a threat to us. We need to preemptively strike to stop this".

The Russian high brass are all fully aware NATO is a defensive pact, and that they have nothing to worry about, as long as they don't invade NATO territory.

But they probably didn't like NATO spreading more anyway. However, I think if it spreads, which is yet to be determined, they will be countries Russia probably wasn't going to invade anyway.

And by the end of this, since they don't know how to retreat, their army will be so decimated that they won't really be able to invade other countries.

[u/Terramotus → u/Old_comfy_shoes]

Putin is a new player to EU4, and he sees NATO as a threat to his ultimate ambitions of World Conquest, especially since expansion into Asia is blocked by China. You gotta break up those alliances first, though, not just YOLO your wars.

Additionally, like many new players, he failed to grasp the significance of the aggressive expansion mechanic and is now Shocked Pikachu when everyone is forming a coalition against him.

[u/Mandurang76 → u/Rezlan]

The Russians with more than two braincells should start being suspicious. "Wait a minute, Ukraine didn't had tanks up until now?"

[u/delocx → u/Mandurang76]

I mean they did, but most of them were taken from Russia during their multiple retreats/routs.

The largest supplier of tanks to Ukraine during this war is still Russia, with 545 documented captures to ~450 supplied from the west, including 90 T-72, 14 Challengers, 14 Leapards, and 31 Abrams still to be delivered.

[u/soulwolf1 → u/Rezlan]

Not only that but they're facing super soldiers and Uber warlocks wearing mjolnir armor and tanks with dragons teeth that is also half unicorn.

They definitely have their hands full.

[u/sanjsrik]

Wait? Direct involvement in what exactly? It's not a war or anything. It's a special something or other.

[u/Maverekt → u/sanjsrik]

Yeah we’re just helping Ukraine through this military exercise

[u/JayR_97 → u/Maverekt]

"We're just gonna leave all this military hardware by the Ukrainian border, if it happens to disappear... oh well."

[u/Saandrig → u/Maverekt]

Nobody has gotten the live ammo joke yet. So they just keep it going.

[u/NutellaGood → u/sanjsrik]

We're just doing special tank storage.

[u/maakera007 → u/sanjsrik]

i think they are already calling it a war and even not against ukraine but nato.

[u/Sir_Wabbit → u/maakera007]

Saying its against NATO, then also saying: hey! you cant send tanks to help Ukraine, this has nothing to do with you, stay out of it!

this is the most stupid timeline we found ourselves in.

[u/PresidentHurg → u/maakera007]

Not NATO, the gay, LGBT+, satanic, capitalist, jewish, nazi horde!

[u/schnoopledeeschnoop → u/PresidentHurg]

For the horde!

[u/gemengelage → u/PresidentHurg]

A nazi horde so gay, you had to include gay twice

[u/everydayasl]

Very good! Your analysis about Western involvement has improved. Now ask yourself why it happened.

[u/MasseyFerguson → u/everydayasl]

It’s a total mystery. Russia was just quietly minding its own business and then this

[u/Cool_Hawks → u/MasseyFerguson]

We were just de-nazifying! Why are you being such a bunch of dicks?!?!

[u/ajaxfetish → u/Cool_Hawks]

Was just prank, bro. Why you heff to be mad?

[u/Furlock_Bones → u/ajaxfetish]

2 places to never prank: airports and land wars in Europe.

[u/kaisabuk → u/Furlock_Bones]

Never start a land war in Asia and never go all in with a Sicilian. Especially when death is on the line.

[u/ptwonline → u/Cool_Hawks]

"We were just minding our own business murdering, raping, genociding, and committing atrocities against our neighbor when suddenly the West shows up and starts getting involved! How dare they? This is all their fault!"

[u/lilpumpgroupie → u/ptwonline]

Quick guys, we need to de-nazify the country that elected an open Jewish man and supported him by like a 70% approval rating before the war.

[u/vardarac → u/lilpumpgroupie]

The Ruzzian talking point is that the Ukranians had a heavy neo-Nazi presence in their battalions murdering Russians in East Ukraine...

...Where the Russian government was actively fomenting, aiding, and abetting violent separatist movements.

It's been "how dare you hurt me by punching back" from the beginning, even before that where they agitated breakaway states in other nations.

[u/zeeboots → u/vardarac]

This just in, the first people to take up guns when someone threatens an area's nationhood will be nationalists. News at 11.

I hate Nazis more than most but if we're gonna condemn militaries that have violently-racist nationalists in their ranks, very few militaries will be spared.

[u/Valdrax → u/lilpumpgroupie]

To Russians, "Nazi" isn't primarily associated with the Holocaust and hating Jews like it is to the West. It's primarily associated with invading Russia and hating Slavs. It's also associated with the history that Ukrainian separatists in western Ukraine (including parts taken from Poland by the USSR in 1939) sided with the Nazis during WW2 against the USSR.

So when we hear them call a Jew a Nazi, the West laughs at how stupid that sounds, but to Russians, the guy who was elected after a revolution to toss out a pro-Russian president seems like what they think of as a Nazi -- an anti-Russian.

(Never mind that they're an authoritarian country invading to seize territory in the name of their ethnic interests, which is way more Nazi than Zelenskyy's government ever will be.)

[u/Widowmaker_Best_Girl → u/Cool_Hawks]

proceeds to blow up another children's hospital

[u/Dubious_cake → u/MasseyFerguson]

yeah, you start one small genocide and everyone loose their mind

[u/CartyTino → u/MasseyFerguson]

WEST CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!!!

[u/Dustangelms → u/CartyTino]

Every Russian government hates this simple trick..

[u/_scrapegoat_]

What they gonna do about it? Attack Ukraine?

[u/brooksram → u/_scrapegoat_]

Worse!

They set the doomsday clock further forward! :0

/S for those in the cheap seats.

[u/lmaydev → u/brooksram]

Given all the hype about their army turned out to be total bullshit I'm not even convinced they have a properly maintained nuclear arsenal.

Warheads have to be replaced and it isn't cheap to keep them in working condition.

We brought their propaganda about their army and it feels like we are doing the same here.

Hopefully we won't have to find out but chances are good it's about as well maintained as their military.

[u/Just_a_follower → u/lmaydev]

It’s funny they say the west involvement is growing… when they already said they were directly fighting nato. 🤔

[u/humbugHorseradish → u/Just_a_follower]

Russia Today: "we're directly fighting with NATO units in Ukraine"

*10 minutes later*

Russia Today: "OH NOES, THESE TANKS MEAN NATO SUPPORT UKRAINE!?"

[u/hellflame → u/humbugHorseradish]

How does Zelensky's joke go again? How is the war going? We lost most of our ammo, supplies and a chunk of soldiers.

And nato?

They haven't arrived yet

[u/Stupid_Triangles → u/hellflame]

Two Jewish Ukrainians meet at the border of Poland and Ukraine to catch up with one another after not seeing each other for over a year. After telling each other of their travels and how their families are fairing, the first man brings up the war.

FM: it's a war, they say.

SM: and a war it is. Many many deaths.

FM: A war between Russia and NATO. How is Russia doing?

SM: Over a hundred-thousand men lost. Missile stockpiles are at critical levels. Hundreds of tank skeletons spot the wheat fields. It's a mess.

FM: and what of NATO?

SM: NATO has yet to arrive.

[u/inferno1234 → u/Stupid_Triangles]

Boy the other deliveries were off haha. Solid stuff

[u/Stupid_Triangles → u/inferno1234]

Zelenskyy delivers it so much better. The environment (on a subway platform where an actual train goes by), the speaker (Zelenskyy), the audience (Letterman), all add so much more gravitas and ambiance to it, that makes it 100X better.

From the man himself. I got some stuff off but it's basically the same. I highly recommend the whole interview

[u/OKImHere → u/Stupid_Triangles]

That politician should go into comedy.

[u/CliftonForce → u/hellflame]

So far, the West has mostly been sending their older or spare gear.

So:

Q: Can Russia beat NATO?

A: They can't even beat a NATO garage sale.

[u/BeltfedOne → u/CliftonForce]

Don't detract from what UA is doing at the cost of their blood. It is unfair at best.

*edit for spelling

[u/Osiris32 → u/BeltfedOne]

I don't think it's a detraction. The UAF is wiping out the equivalent of a battalion per day. And they're doing it with the stuff we pulled out of storage and dusted off. They have been fighting with bravery, skill, and intelligence. A lot of Ukrainians have fallen in defense of their homeland, but those are lives spent. Not lives wasted like what Russia is doing.

[u/ttaptt → u/Osiris32]

That's an excellent distinction, and while I hate every single Ukrainian life lost, I'm really kind of saddened by some of the russian lads that were literally told one thing (training exercises, especially early on) and then Poof JK commrade, you're actually now in a tank battalion with no supplies, broken equipment that no one has been trained how to use, no leadership, and a populace that you'd been told would welcome you with open arms, but actually will kill for their homeland.

That fuckhead Putin... I've heard he has cancer, and I really really hope he does. Only person I've ever wished cancer upon.

[u/MisterXa → u/Osiris32]

Slava Ukraini, Heroyam slava!

[u/dretvantoi → u/BeltfedOne]

That Ukrainians are able to kick Russia's ass with only the West's spare gear is actually an affirmation of their dedication and bravery, not a detraction.

[u/ArrestDeathSantis → u/Just_a_follower]

Is NATO in the room with us?

[u/clauderbaugh → u/ArrestDeathSantis]

The tanks are coming from inside the house!

[u/FishUK_Harp → u/clauderbaugh]

I'm fairly confident I couldn't fit a Challenger 2 in my wardrobe. You'd know it was in there.

[u/Meanderingversion → u/FishUK_Harp]

That's what she said

[u/FishUK_Harp → u/Meanderingversion]

Rifled, for her pleasure.

[u/Meanderingversion → u/FishUK_Harp]

Backed by our money back guarantee!!

"It Bangs"

[u/Meanderingversion → u/clauderbaugh]

Ohhhhh! The files are INSIDE the computer!!!

[u/UFOregon420 → u/ArrestDeathSantis]

Show me on this map where NATO touched you.

[u/ArrestDeathSantis → u/UFOregon420]

point to his butt

[u/grendus → u/ArrestDeathSantis]

"She's behind me, isn't she?"

"No, I'm in front of you."

[u/ZeenTex → u/Just_a_follower]

"hah, when were done with Ukraine were going to march on Berlin, NATO is weak!"

Wait, you're not supposed to send arms to Ukraine, now we cannot advance! "

[u/lonesharkex → u/lmaydev]

Fun Fact: The amount of money America spends on its nuclear arsenal, is equal to the entire budget of the Russian military.

[u/unshavenbeardo64 → u/lonesharkex]

Another fun fact: the people of the US could give every man, women and child in Ukraine 3 guns with enough ammo from private owners, and they would still have 200 million left :).

[u/BourbonGuy09 → u/unshavenbeardo64]

Thank God! I thought you were going to ask me to give up my tanks.

[u/BefreiedieTittenzwei → u/BourbonGuy09]

“You can have my armoured vehicles when you pry them from my clammy fat fingers….”

[u/TheTallGuy0 → u/BefreiedieTittenzwei]

Armored vehicles are cool and all but SO HARD to get through the drive-thru window

[u/[deleted] → u/TheTallGuy0]

That has never stopped anyone. I've seen F350s pulling camper trailers attempting a drive-thru barely suited to a Mini.

Just came back from a place that had a panel van and trailer taking up 6 spaces right in front of the door. There were specific spots for that configuration around the side of the building, all completely empty. They would've had to walk maybe 20 more feet.

[u/Beleg63 → u/lonesharkex]

Because the US actively maintains their arsenal.

[u/lonesharkex → u/Beleg63]

yep. Learning that fact made me much less concerned about Russia's nuclear capabilities.

[u/nAssailant → u/lonesharkex]

Yeah but it makes me 10x more concerned about Russia's nuclear security. Specifically, how secure nuclear materials are in Russia.

[u/lilpumpgroupie → u/lonesharkex]

If there was some sort of nuclear exchange, the Russian military could massively underperform, and it would still be really, really fucking bad.

Unless their entire system somehow is neutralized. Which I don’t understand how that would happen with subs alone.

[u/TheStoicSlab → u/lonesharkex]

Im guessing the chances of a botched launch are high after 50 years of sitting around.

[u/nickstatus → u/TheStoicSlab]

To be fair, they did just introduce a new ICBM, the Sarmat 2. No idea how many they've deployed, it might have just been the one prototype they launched and posted on YouTube with scary music.

[u/tesseract4 → u/nickstatus]

Pretty much every new whizbang tech demo Russia does results in like half a dozen of the item in question being built, and then used only for parades, and they don't even work right then.

It's an old joke, but Russia has a large, modern military. The problem is that the part that's modern ain't large, and the part that's large ain't modern.

[u/TheStoicSlab → u/lonesharkex]

This, the scale of the US is something that most people do not take into account. For example, California alone has a GDP larger than most countries, including Russia. I believe it's in the top 5 economies of the world.

[u/Constrained_Entropy → u/TheStoicSlab]

This, the scale of the US is something that most people do not take into account. For example, California alone has a GDP larger than most countries, including Russia. I believe it's in the top 5 economies of the world.

The pathetic thing is Russia could be right up there too - if they weren't such total shitheads.

[u/Nerdfatha → u/lonesharkex]

And a lot of that arsenal is already in Europe in NATO hands. The US recently finished delivering hundreds of B61-12 gravity bombs to allies. Putin knows this. He can rattle his nuclear saber all he wants, but he knows if he uses it, he will be annhilated.

[u/saturnspritr → u/lmaydev]

I’ve always thought that they’re gonna look for their own nukes and what’s not been “misplaced” is going to end up that it’s always been a bunch of cardboard tubes and boxes under a moth eaten blanket with missile written backwards in Russian outside the building. And all the money they spent has been thoroughly stolen long ago.

[u/StephaneiAarhus → u/saturnspritr]

It's just "big green tubes".

[u/Mugmoor → u/lmaydev]

Russia's army has always been shit. They just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away. This war is far from over, I hope Ukraine is prepared.

[u/duffman274 → u/Mugmoor]

Zapp Brannigan 101

[u/mindspork → u/duffman274]

Also the Farquaad principle.

"Many of you may die, but that's a risk I'm willing to take."

[u/bkc-wot → u/Mugmoor]

Not only is Ukraine prepared, but the majority of western countries are prepared....not just NATO. Russia attacking Ukraine was a massive miscalculation by Putin and his comrades.

[u/criptohore → u/bkc-wot]

Putin thought it would be as easy as taking Crimea in 2014. Hitler took Poland in 1939, and thought invading Russia was going to be a cake walk. Full circle.

[u/T_Burger88 → u/Mugmoor]

“Quantity has a Quality of its own” - is a quote often attributed to Stalin but has generally definite Russia military style going back as far as the Rus moved out of Kiev and became the dominate player on the steppes of Asia.

[u/historynutjackson → u/Mugmoor]

Russia's army has always been shit. They just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away.

There's a reason Operation Typhoon was a failure and it's because Russia took 1.2 million casualties protecting Moscow.

[u/it_diedinhermouth → u/lmaydev]

I remember when we were hearing news about USSR’s nuclear arsenal being blackmarket-sold as the regime was being dismantled. It was a real threat in the 1990s. With that kind of environment in the military I can’t imagine Russia has much left. How could they expect to keep discipline in line in the nuclear department while everyone else is free for all.

[u/lolwutbreh → u/lmaydev]

It really is amazing what the US was able to do for a couple decades all the way in the Middle East. Russia could barely start the war in a country right next door.

[u/lmaydev → u/lolwutbreh]

Yeah their inability to form supply lines from their own border is insane!

[u/GoodAndHardWorking → u/lmaydev]

They don't even have pallets to move material

[u/MoonManMooner → u/lolwutbreh]

The logistics was magnificent. Seriously, idk if there’s another army in the world that could move as much shit as we did that far around the world and keep the logistics completely intact.

It truly was incredible

[u/ParagonFury → u/MoonManMooner]

America has the most dangerous military in the world not because of training or tech.

It's because if the soldiers need anything even as minor as ice cream, we'll build a fuckin' ship and get it over there on the regular.

In three different flavors.

It's very hard to fight an enemy who basically has the unlimited supply hack from StarCraft.

[u/Erected_naps → u/ParagonFury]

I remember that Japanese regiment that the soldiers speaking on when they knew they’d lost the war when they were starving trying to holdout they watched an ice cream barge pull up to help raise American morale. I mean can you imagine your starving to death and you enemy is eating ice cream.

[u/moistrain → u/Erected_naps]

When I visited Japan, I met a man who's father was an imperial aircraft engineer. He knew they'd lose in 42-43 when he saw American plane wreckage and saw just how advanced they were in comparison. (altitude, engine power, weapons)

[u/Spackleberry → u/moistrain]

Also, Japan built 76,000 planes in total throughout the war. The USA built 96,000 planes in 1944 alone.

American war production in WW2 was absolutely insane. The Liberty ships that transported goods across the ocean took just under 40 days to build, and in 1943, the US was completing 3 per day.

[u/ImaGISBuff → u/Spackleberry]

There was one shipyard, maybe in Jersey, maybe the Oregon naval works in Portland, as a publicity stunt they built one in 4 days.

On Prime Video there's a History Channel docuseries: WWII: The Pacific Theater. Great watch. Episode 11 "the Big Blue Feet and American Industry" goes over the incredible amounts of materials we were able to produce during the war.

[u/cinyar → u/Erected_naps]

I heard similar version of the story but in Europe with a captured German officer. That he knew they are fucked when they were barely getting supplies across the border from home soil while Americans were enjoying ice cream trucks on the other side of the world.

[u/deja-roo → u/cinyar]

It was that they found chocolate in American rations.

[u/grendus → u/Erected_naps]

"Listen man, not to be all insubordinate or nothin', but... I'm seriously considering surrendering for a pint of Chunky Monkey."

[u/Xilizhra → u/ParagonFury]

Our weaknesses are a short attention span and extremely fickle politics. I honestly don't think that Japan was wrong about America in totality when they attacked us, but they screwed up by assuming that our inconstancy would apply in a defensive war, when the threshold for us losing interest would be much higher.

[u/Marsupialize → u/lolwutbreh]

Every aspect of Russia has been gutted to the core by corruption that’s what happens in a gangster state, that’s how Putin stays in power

[u/Daxnaha → u/lmaydev]

The US uses some 35 billion USD on maintanence and operations, Russias entire military budget was 65 billion in 2021.

[u/Brave_Nerve_6871 → u/_scrapegoat_]

Since the beginning of this war I have thought that the width of Ukraine's allies keeps everybody safe. Indeed, what the hell is Russia going to do about it? Bomb Paris or Berlin? Or Morocco? Or Tokyo? Or terrorbomb whole western Europe. I don't think so. The Ukrainian allies are so numerous that Russia can't do shit. It would be completely pointless and only make matters worse for them if the war would grow outside of Ukraine. Just send in the F-16's already.

[u/Random_Imgur_User → u/Brave_Nerve_6871]

I genuinely think this is going to end exactly how it did in 1991 with the Soviet Union. I don't think that Putin is going to control Russia in the next few years, maybe even as soon as 2024 if things go really south.

I don't think Ukraine will end up controlling Russia or anything like that, but I think that History will remember this version of Russia as a transition into what's to come, and the "Ukrainian Invasion" will be the last page in those history books, describing the collapse. Putin simply cannot recover from this, in my honest opinion.

[u/Firesonallcylinders → u/Random_Imgur_User]

Although, I like this, I have to say that most Russians have been fed Putinism for decades. Some years ago I saw a docu where the journalist was interviewing Russians from all parts of the Russian society. They’re brainwashed. But maybe a new leader would help get a new Marshall-thing going, but the corruption in Russia is mind boggling.

[u/Random_Imgur_User → u/Firesonallcylinders]

To them this would be like God losing a battle with Satan. I think the population would become very divided.

Think American "Conservatives and Progressives" for example. Once he is no longer in power there will be younger Russians who want to be free of Putin's legacy, and there will be older Russians who have a strong distaste for these new ideas.

That's assuming they don't just get another Putin after this though.

[u/Firesonallcylinders → u/Random_Imgur_User]

What Trump and the elections in 2015 and 2019 showed me is that nothing can be taken for granted. And Russia is divided in rural and cities. If they have the same age as me, some will hope for socialism’s return while others will hope for a rise of fascism. I fear a civil war, though. We don’t need that.

[u/Responsible_Walk8697 → u/Random_Imgur_User]

Russia is not the Soviet Union, even remotely. The Soviet Union was a mess, but 2023 Russia is a way smaller and less diversified economy. We can see it’s army is nowhere near the 1980s USSR army, and the kind of pressure it’s economy can withstand is very limited.

Russia will be a client state of China moving forward, with possibly some of the lesser republics parting ways (Chechnya, etc ).

[u/Harsimaja → u/Responsible_Walk8697]

Retrospectively are we sure the Soviet Army was that amazing in 1991 either? Their last success was taking Kabul in 1979. Russia is much smaller now but still huge, including their arsenal on paper, so most people assumed their military was not that incompetent until they actually fucked around and found out in 2022. The USSR was pretty incompetent and inefficient too, but for the last decade wasn’t really tested except for getting bogged down in Afghanistan, and morale was probably very low.

[u/sturdy_octo_potato → u/Harsimaja]

The Soviet military would have certainly been much more effective. Russia didn't fully modernize their military but at the same time they didn't maintain their old Soviet stocks and manpower/mobilization reserves either. Worst of both worlds IMO.

You're right the Soviets did get bogged down, but they absolutely dominated in Afghanistan. Just read up about the operation to assassinate the president of Afghanistan - Storm 333. This is the same thing they tried to do and absolutely failed in Kyiv early in the Ukraine invasion.

[u/gabe_iveljic]

And to think he could have avoided so much by just not invading.

[u/Responsible_Walk8697 → u/gabe_iveljic]

Now you are trying to use logic, where is the fun in that?

[u/lankyevilme → u/gabe_iveljic]

Putin could probably have kept Crimea if he just stayed satisfied. Now he really may lose it all.

[u/ChaosCore → u/lankyevilme]

He have nothing else to do anyway, so

[u/abobtosis → u/ChaosCore]

Oh so this was all out of boredom? Somebody get this guy a world of Warcraft subscription or something!

[u/ChaosCore → u/abobtosis]

Dude, he has all the money one can get, literally nothing else to do other than play a power monger, some people just tag along and that's it.

[u/abobtosis → u/ChaosCore]

That's why intrinsic motivation is better than external motivation.

If you seek out homeownership your whole life, then once you get a house you'll have no other place to go. You just accomplished your only goal. Now you have nothing to shoot for.

If you seek out something intrinsic like improving your skill in karate or math or guitar playing, that goal is never ending. There is always somewhere to go and always more to learn.

This guy made his only goal extrinsic (power). Without seeking more power/money, his life has no meaning, because that's the only meaning he gave his life.

[u/SplitReality → u/gabe_iveljic]

Russia can STILL avoid so much by ending the invasion. Nobody is going to cross into Russian soil and sanction would get lifted. Putin on the other hand would have a hard time explaining why 150,000+ Russians were killed and wounded for nothing. That's the real reason why the war is continuing.

[u/mnemy → u/SplitReality]

They'd still be sanctioned until they gave massive reparations. They are definitely going to be footing the bill to help rebuild what they destroyed at the very least.

He should have called it after a day or two when the sneak attack failed, and just said "whoops, our bad. We thought that would work". The west would have been easily placated at that point to prevent ongoing tensions.

[u/SplitReality → u/mnemy]

I doubt it. It will never happen, but if Putin offered to pull all troops out of Ukraine and allow UN or NATO peacekeeping troops in so this never happens again in exchange for sanctions being lifted, the rest of the world would go for it in a heartbeat. It'd be less expensive than continuing the war, and the west is actually worried that someone worse would take Putin's place if he got deposed.

[u/suninabox → u/gabe_iveljic]

They thought it was going to be an easy win, over in weeks. Now a whole generation of Russians (and Ukrainians) has to be fucked because Putin is too much of a tool to admit he was wrong.

[u/Chainweasel → u/gabe_iveljic]

He could have sat in one of his palaces and lived out his life in a magnitude of luxury most of us can't even dream of. But he couldn't be happy with that, he needed more, He needed a Legacy. Now his legacy will be a laughing stock and he'll be lucky if he doesn't completely fumble this and lose all his power and suffer from gravity poisoning.

[u/shwarma_heaven → u/gabe_iveljic]

Have you not seen Lion King???

Scar can't just stay there... They got to go de-nazify some more pride lands...

[u/TheHyperion25]

They're free to leave anytime.

[u/cosa80 → u/TheHyperion25]

Exactly - GTFO!

What an absolute pack of pricks. The shit they come out with is so far removed from reality it's bizarre, addressing things as if the tanks are heading straight for the Kremlin....

That's what they deserve at this stage with all the suffering they have inflicted so far ..

[u/FOXHOUND9000]

Reminder that Russia was saying for months for internal purposes, that NATO soldiers are fighting in Ukraine... Just two completely different Ukraine wars, one for Russia citzens, and one for the rest of the world.

[u/Harsimaja → u/FOXHOUND9000]

Yeah, one has to really stretch the understanding of phrases to consider ‘volunteers from NATO countries’ to be ‘NATO forces’

[u/WallstreetBaker]

Russia, you've got it all wrong. These tanks are for agricultural purposes. We saw you donated some to the farmers and we decided we would as well.

[u/Mandurang76 → u/WallstreetBaker]

Looking at some landscapes in Ukraine it looks like they've been plowing the fields with mortars.

So this would be just another special agricultural operation.

[u/SSBMUIKayle → u/Mandurang76]

Right in time to follow the special fertilizer operation Ukrainian forces have conducted with Russian corpses in Bakhmut

[u/alppu → u/SSBMUIKayle]

That fits with their mouthpieces generating record amounts of bullshit.

[u/Dr_SlapMD]

AND?

[u/nixielover → u/Dr_SlapMD]

Well it made Putin cry

[u/Erdtree22 → u/nixielover]

Awww...it made Uncle Vova sad? :( NATO, you rapscallion!

[u/JunkedLotSerenade → u/nixielover]

Maybe he even shit his pants again. Poor fella.

[u/Responsible_Walk8697 → u/Dr_SlapMD]

It’s not fun when you cannot do whatever you want without consequences

[u/SamShephardsMustache]

We're not involved. It's just a "Special Donation Operation".

[u/ScaryBluejay87 → u/SamShephardsMustache]

Special Military Donation

[u/1838438282]

"bully turns crybaby when victim gets help" there fixed it

[u/the-zoidberg → u/1838438282]

They always do.

[u/Khoeth_Mora]

Right, so its time to leave ukraine

[u/moonLanding123]

Russia is just a supersized north korea

[u/Dull-Yard-3002]

30000 innocent civilians dead or wounded by a maffia/terrorist state tends to make people upset.

[u/Bulevine]

Ruzzia: The West isn't letting us commit genocide in Ukraine without consequences!!! This isn't faaaaiiiirrrrr!!!

[u/Aethericseraphim]

They’re scared shitless. They don’t have an answer to Leopard 2s or Abrams.

Unless the Ukrainians use them in the same manner as Russians use their tanks, the Russians are in for a world of pain once they reach the frontlines.

[u/Prowler1111 → u/Aethericseraphim]

Exactly, as far as Ukrainian crews use them properly, Russian tanks are toast, starting with the fact either Leopard 2s or Abrams can shoot at them far out of Russian tanks gun range.

[u/Independent-Canary95]

Oh no! Russia is upset again. Anyway.

[u/adopt-a-ginger → u/Independent-Canary95]

After all they did for us: peddling disinformation, promoting civil unrest, fomenting hatred and paranoia, meddling in elections, carrying out assassinations on foreign soil… we wouldn’t even allow them to invade one sovereign nation. How unfair 😞

[u/ameis314 → u/adopt-a-ginger]

this upcoming election is going to be an absolute shitshow.

[u/[deleted]]

These tanks were designed specifically for russia, just letting them off the leash and fulfill their purpose.

[u/Kraelman → u/[deleted]]

Russia about to learn why Americans don’t have healthcare.

[u/Harsimaja → u/Kraelman]

And for all that Americans still live 6 years longer than Russians on average (though 4 less than Western Europe). And as bad as the US has it in its poorer areas, the healthcare in rural Russia is at another level of bad.

[u/gump82]

What about when Russia was offering bounty’s on American soldiers in Afghanistan.

[u/Longjumping_Size3565]

They seem awfully surprised for a country that’s been claiming to have been at war with NATO this whole time.

[u/noviceIndyCamper]

I thought we were already at war with them. Isn't that Putin's whole schtick? That the West is at war with Russia?

[u/StrengthRemarkable57]

Fuck Russia, they should just build a wall and enjoy their isolated fucked up prison. Don't look at your neighbors Russia, you tend to kill them, enjoy your slave system, watch your daily propaganda and don't leave your shithole. No one wants you.

[u/Abraham_Sapien]

We (the U.S.) literally signed an agreement guaranteeing their safety in exchange for giving up their nukes! Of course we're involved!

[u/Lie-Straight → u/Abraham_Sapien]

We don’t talk about this enough

[u/faze_fazebook]

Look at whos talking. Pretty sure Russia has quite the envolvment themselfes.

[u/mattblackness → u/faze_fazebook]

*Themselfies

[u/Beardedw0nd3r86]

Russian invasion of Ukraine shows direct Russian involvement in Ukraine.

[u/JerseyWiseguy]

In related news, Russia also says that water is wet, dogs bark, and the sky is blue.

[u/fookidookidoo → u/JerseyWiseguy]

There's no way Russia could state three factual statements in a row. Lol

[u/KamahlYrgybly → u/fookidookidoo]

Yeah, if Russia made those claims, I would immediately go outside to check, and irritate my dog for a response. Even then I would be suspicious.

[u/Gradual_Tardigrade]

Get fucked, Russia.

Sincerely, 99% of the world

[u/adymck11]

Just want to push you back to your border… nothing else to see here!

[u/override367]

I thought they were already at war with NATO?

was NATO not using tanks?

How nice of NATO

[u/SilentMaster]

Direct means there is a US soldier inside the tank. This is indirect you dunces.

[u/hukep]

Russia gets, what Russia deserves.

[u/PYF_Secret]

Wasn't Russia the first one to donate its tanks to Ukraine quite fast after the start of the special operation? Someone should tell Putin so he can punish himself.