r/worldnews • u/burning_dawn • Jan 20 '23
US to designate Russia’s Wagner mercenary group as a ‘transnational criminal organization’ Russia/Ukraine
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/us-russia-wagner-group/index.html?utm_content=2023-01-20T18%3A55%3A22&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twcnnbrk5.6k
u/lollersauce914 Jan 20 '23
shouldn't have taken this long.
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u/TheMindfulnessShaman Jan 20 '23
Prigz has influence over Interpol, the UNHRC, and probably has more politicians in his pocket than any other oligarch that isn't still in the shadows.
It's a similar reason as to why Russia has not been designated a terrorist state even though it has been far more of a terrorist state than any Middle Eastern theocracy or South American banana republic.
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u/clib Jan 20 '23
Such a fucked up move by Interpol.They dropped the Red Notice on Prigozhin in July 2020.
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u/alaskanloops Jan 20 '23
And Russia turns around and mis-uses Red Notices on their targets, in fact that is the title of one of Bill Browder's books. In it he talks about the, I think, 7 or 8 times he's had a red notice put out on him. Including one time in Spain where he got arrested but had a chance to tweet about it, which went viral, and he was let go before they could ship him off to Russia. Super fucked up.
(I have it on my bookshelf but haven't read it yet. I've heard a few podcasts where he is interviewed and talks about the story)
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u/cuisinedossier Jan 20 '23
Is Browder the Chicago academic whose been publicly frank about Putin for some time?
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u/alaskanloops Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23
No, he was the biggest western investor in Russia after the fall of the soviet union. He had a Russian Lawyer Sergei Magnitsky who uncovered millions of dollars of theft from a government fund. Instead of rewarding him for uncovering such corruption, he was tortured and killed in a horrible Russian jail. Rather than forgetting about his friend, Bill has spent the rest of his life getting The Magnitsky Act passed, first in the US and now around the world. It sanctions Russian officials responsible for Magnitsky's death, and other corruption. Bill is apparently Putin's "Enemy Number 1" because of this work.
He has a fascinating story. Here are two episodes I remember listening to that were good:
https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/bill-browder-hunted-by-putin/id1344999619?i=1000402169953
Edit: Looks like at least one of those episodes (the latest one) is on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hReqqCq2his
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u/qoqmarley Jan 21 '23
Small point for context: The Russians tortured Magnitsky because they wanted him to say that it was Browder that was corrupt so they could charge Browder. However, even through extreme torture Magnitsky never gave up his friend and that is why Browder has made it his life mission to pass the Magnitsky Act.
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u/alaskanloops Jan 21 '23
Absolutely thanks for adding that in, he really was a hero. I wrote my above comment from memory so some other details could be off
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u/RedditTipiak Jan 20 '23
Including one time in Spain
It is absolutely vital to understand than, even to this day, Russia still has leverage and friends everywhere in Western Europe.
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u/claimTheVictory Jan 20 '23
Power does what power does.
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Jan 20 '23
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u/Wordpad25 Jan 20 '23
Prigozhin is just a servant.
He’s next in line for dictator.
He’s also personally responsible for any gains Russia made in Ukraine in many many months.
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u/GoodAndHardWorking Jan 20 '23
If Russian history teaches us anything, it's that the next in line for dictator never becomes the dictator.
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u/deaddodo Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 21 '23
You realize every dictator of the USSR was handpicked (by their predecessor or the party). And we don't even need to go that far because Putin was handpicked by Yeltsin. He was a nobody, which is exactly why he picked him.
It's the previous dictator that never survives.
edit: clarifying for nitpickers
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u/vervglotunken Jan 21 '23
Putin’s grandfather was Stalin’s personal chef. Ironically Prigozhin is Putin’s personal chef.
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u/clearlybraindead Jan 21 '23
I guess that makes sense in a kinda twisted way. The dictator's gotta trust you quite a bit if they're letting you make all of their food. Their children would probably be well indoctrinated too.
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u/Theworldisblessed Jan 20 '23
Putin knew what he was doing though. Yeltsin is less of a dictator and more of a corrupt president with poor competency. Then Putin turned the whole thing into a dictatorship.
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u/Cosack Jan 21 '23
Further example of Yeltsin dropping the ball, he allegedly regretted bringing in Putin. Something about quickly recognizing his motivations as all wrong, if memory serves
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u/Aspwriter Jan 20 '23
You realize every dictator of the USSR was handpicked.
I'm pretty sure Lenin DID NOT pick Stalin to take over. Also pretty sure that Krushnev didn't get a whole lot of say in his replacement when the party forced him to resign.
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u/nagrom7 Jan 21 '23
Also Stalin didn't really pick anyone, which is why his death caused a scramble for power. The most obvious candidate, Lavrentiy Beria, ended up arrested and executed during this period.
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u/Belphegorandhisprime Jan 20 '23
Next in line for dictator? What jibberish is this? Did you just conjour that idea out of thin air?
Prigozhin has zero political and military allies, apart from the occational happenstance when Kadyrov and him publicly agree on something. Neither of them have a snowballs chance in hell of taking over from Putin. They lack the necessary support from politicians and most definetly from the Kremlin, the security forces and the police. It doesnt help him much to have his own little private army, when in reality he just runs it for Putin and is entirely dependant on military equipment from the Kremlin. Those who would oppose him control far more troops, and far more military equipment.
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u/Necessary_Apple_5567 Jan 20 '23
He not even close. He just a servant and since he has conflict with the military and Shoygu, so, he tries to increase his weight thru the media he controls. Also he is in control of trolls fabrique as well. He tties to use this resource as well.
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u/19Barra74 Jan 20 '23
Nobody inside the regime sees him as next in line. In fact, if he gets too big for his own boots, he may find himself falling out of a window with 3 self inflicted bullet wholes in the back of his head only to be hit by a semi trailer that just happened to be passing by.
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u/MrLoadin Jan 21 '23
"He’s also personally responsible for any gains Russia made in Ukraine in many many months."
Any chance you can cite that from an accurate western source backed with comments by Russia? The normal line of thinking is Wagner doesn't have enough total units or logistics to maintain battlefield gains without support from the Russian military, and multiple politicians recruit for Wagner and give speeches. They are basically used as cannon fodder for normal armored and mechanized units.
Also in every area that Wagner has been claiming it's just them, multiple posts from social media of MoD linked units have been found. It's a really bold claim to make that a figurehead is personally responsible for months of military gains.
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u/Polar_Vortx Jan 20 '23
“State sponsor of terrorism” is an internal U.S. political label, not an Interpol thing.
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Jan 20 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Wickersaltlamp Jan 20 '23
They didn't do that to make fruit cheaper they did that to make the fruit companies more money. ...and also to ensure socialist governments never look too good or exist, if possible.
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u/misogichan Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23
Sometimes. Other times it was because their leadership was getting a little too cozy with communist leaders and the US didn't want to see another Cuba defying them in their own backyard. For example, there was the 1980s invasion of Grenada (whose new leaders had risen to power via a military coup and were going to build an airfield for the Soviets).
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u/loverevolutionary Jan 20 '23
If we are talking specifically the banana wars that spawned the phrase "banana republic," those happened between 1898 and 1934. Of course, that was not the end of US meddling in Central and South America. Far from it. Some of the worst offenses happened in the 70s and 80s, and arguably, continue to this very day.
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u/xPlus2Minus1 Jan 20 '23
Typically, people own their backyards
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u/AtLeastThisIsntImgur Jan 20 '23
Your neighbours house is not part of your backyard
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u/9Wind Jan 20 '23
Mercenaries are actually illegal under international law, but very rarely does anyone do anything about them unless they act like Wagner.
The world holds the hand of private companies too much. If "it makes a lot of money" was a valid defense for breaking the law, weed companies would be legal on the entire planet.
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u/Drunkenaviator Jan 21 '23
If weed companies made money for the right people, they'd be legal across the planet tomorrow.
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u/TyrannosaurusFrat Jan 21 '23
We gotta wait til Philip Morris buys all of them first, then we can legalize it
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Jan 21 '23
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u/Umadbro7600 Jan 21 '23
this but unironically
contractors outnumbered troops 3:1 by the end of the afghanistan conflict.
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u/lobehold Jan 20 '23
These kind of designations trigger a cascade of domino effects due to existing laws, legislations and regulations suddenly start applying to the targeted group.
Often the interactions of those numerous automatically applied rules lead to weird negative side-effects for the country itself, friends and/or allies so you have to make sure you're doing things right.
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u/WiglyWorm Jan 20 '23
Can we do it with blackwater/xi/whatever that group is called that we contracted in Iraq and just drive around shooting up civilians?
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u/BurtonGusterToo Jan 21 '23
I just checked and currently they are listed the "Rainbow Cuddly HugNstuffs Good Bears Bunch".
I am guessing to distance themselves from their constant international crimes.
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u/Zauberer-IMDB Jan 20 '23
You'd think doing a false flag terrorist attack pretending to be the French military last year would have been enough for immediate reprisal.
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u/JohnnySmithe80 Jan 20 '23
Wagner was only officially formed a few months ago
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u/Lotions_and_Creams Jan 20 '23
I’d imagine there’s a lot of legal nuance involved as well. The US doesn’t want to accidentally set precedent loosely enough that another PMC might fit the definition.
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u/greihund Jan 20 '23
I wonder if the African countries where the Wagner Group has mining operations - a significant portion of their income and raw materials for the Russian war machine - could be encouraged to nationalize those mines
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u/platonicjesus Jan 20 '23
Probably not considering the politicians that approved said mines are getting paid a ton of money to let them exploit their countries resources.
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u/FliccC Jan 20 '23
In most cases it's not bribery but simply military power.
What Wagner usually does is this: They go into super poor countries that are at the verge of collapsing - and then they offer the falling dictator military aid. The dictator has no choice but to agree and Wagner indeed massacres the dictators enemies. As compensation Wagner makes their demands: They exploit the ressources, they recruit their men, they rape and steal, they are above the law.
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u/scottishblakk Jan 20 '23
Bingo. In Sudan, they are training and supplying equipment/arms to an
militiaarmed force called the RSF (Janjaweed/Darfur atrocities), which somehow managed to thwart itself into power following a revolution and subsequent coup — but that’s not why they are in Sudan. The RSF happens to control and have a monopoly over Sudan’s rich gold resources making them exponentially more powerful over the last decade. They control these regions with an iron fist and Wagner helps them do their bidding and haavy lifting. So much fucking gold on the cheap ends up in Russia’s hands.43
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u/T1B2V3 Jan 21 '23
"Don't you know the world is built with blood and genocide and exploitation" - a based sock
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u/nomofica Jan 20 '23
That would require that their respective governments aren't compromised, and the chances of that being the case in Africa is infinitesimal.
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u/PapaBat Jan 20 '23
Hopefully Yevgeny Prigozhin sees justice. Don’t care whether that’s in the form of a Hague criminal tribunal or a drone strike up his ass. Just get it done.
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u/Geng1Xin1 Jan 20 '23
I vote for the Hellfire missile outfitted with swords.
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u/Jaysyn4Reddit Jan 20 '23
The Super Slapchop.
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u/god_damnit_leeroy Jan 20 '23
You’re gonna LOVE my nuts!
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u/big_fuzzeh Jan 21 '23
Your comment triggered the slapchop remix in my memory. Thanks, but also fuck you.
The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap
The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap
The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap
The skin! Comes right up.
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u/god_damnit_leeroy Jan 21 '23
DJStevePorter and Tronovitch had some bangers back in the day.
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u/ChefChopNSlice Jan 20 '23
Cut my life into pieces…….
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u/Nottsbomber Jan 20 '23
Drone strike with spinning swords...
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u/Sweaty-Feedback-1482 Jan 20 '23
The miracles of modern macheticine!
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u/Darth_drizzt_42 Jan 20 '23
It might be fucked up but it's very good at reducing collateral damage, and the intended recipient is gonna be dead anyway
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u/Dangly_Parts Jan 20 '23
Brought to you by friends of the pod, Raytheon.
Raytheon, for when you only want some collateral damage
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u/dolleauty Jan 20 '23
When you order military armaments from Mall Ninja Inc.
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u/_zenith Jan 20 '23
Nah, the slap-chop missile actually slices. The mall ninja merely aspires to.
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u/corkyskog Jan 20 '23
Honestly from the description they put a lot of emphasis on how impactful the pure kinetic energy is, I am not sure how much the blades actually matter when a person gets hit by a missile... although I am sure the blades would be way more useful if someone were in a car or something
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u/DefaultVariable Jan 20 '23
That’s actually the intent from what I recall it’s to be able to pierce and take out targets with pin-point precision while minimizing potential collateral damage.
There’s test pictures out there showing the front seat of a car mangled while the back seat is perfectly fine and in tact
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u/SolomanGundySr Jan 20 '23
rotting in jail is better though.
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u/PEVEI Jan 20 '23
In most cases yes, but look at Victor Bout, where there’s life there’s hope, and Prigozhin doesn’t deserve hope.
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u/Lehk Jan 20 '23
i don't care about if he has hope or not, he has enough money and power to remain dangerous even while incarcerated or to get himself out somehow.
money and power won't stop a JDAM
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u/agitpotato Jan 20 '23
Beggers can't be choosers. Whens the last time anyone that high profile got what they deserved from a courtroom?
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u/UnrequitedRespect Jan 20 '23
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u/Hugheston987 Jan 20 '23
One of his prisoner conscripts might take him out if the opportunity comes up.
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u/Lehk Jan 20 '23
It won't, Mob bosses are very competent at maintaining effective bodyguards for themselves.
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u/EforieNord Jan 20 '23
BS... they're a terrorist organization... are you people paying attention to the ethnic cleansings they're performing in Mali and Sudan and then blaming on France?
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u/CrisZPennState Jan 21 '23
Truly some of the most villainous people on the planet. Wagnerites are thieves of oxygen
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u/farraigemeansthesea Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23
Just the audacity of recruiting violent criminals into armed combat and naming his corps after one of the proto-ideologues of racial purity should have raised any number of red flags immediately.
(As a former classical musician, I also detest Richard Wagner's entire output for entirely musicological reasons.)
The question we have to ask, what are the real benefits of this designation. Direct intervention from NATO is impossible as nobody wants to open up an entire WW3; equally, Russia will never concede or extradite their war criminals for independent trial to the Hague, or anywhere else. Do I see a way out of this conflict? I can't say that I do.
Edit: typo
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u/caul_of_the_void Jan 20 '23
Wagner isn't just involved in Ukraine. They're also in Africa - I read the other day that they've been committing atrocities in Mali under the guise of "fighting terrorism" - so they might be easier routed from there.
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u/FROOMLOOMS Jan 20 '23
I can imagine every drone operator in Syria is just caressing the triggers waiting for Wagner to be labeled as such.
ROE about to get spicy in the middle east
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u/booze_clues Jan 20 '23
US already massacred a bunch of them a few years ago because Russia refused to acknowledge they were working for Russia.
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u/FROOMLOOMS Jan 20 '23
Oh I KNOW all about the Battle of Kasham
You should listen to the officers phone calls after the dust settle, just talking about numbers of dead.
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u/dactyif Jan 20 '23
Lmao say what you say about American foreign policy but you do not get in a conventional war with them. Just no, don't. Their entire military doctrine up until recently was designed to mop the floor with hordes of reds.
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u/myaltduh Jan 20 '23
Russia is also doing its absolute best to ensure that doctrine doesn’t change too much.
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u/translatingrussia Jan 20 '23
In Syria too. They killed someone via sledgehammer there as well and recorded it. They even sell merchandise of a guy swinging a sledgehammer on Russia’s version of Amazon.
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u/Geldeeran Jan 20 '23
The Wagner exorcist patch portrays a Wagner PMC using a sledgehammer to crush Baphomet's knee if I'm not mistaken. A not to subtle nod to their brutality and their attempted justification of it by using Baphomet to represent the people they're commiting atrocities against. Really freaking disturbing if you ask me.
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u/translatingrussia Jan 20 '23
I’ve only seen that as a flag and something to hang on the wall.
Here’s another patch celebrating a certain war crime in Syria they filmed:
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u/Geldeeran Jan 20 '23
The fact that they're so proud of war crimes is proof that Wagner really is the lowest scum on the planet. I would lose no sleep if they got wiped out. The sooner the better
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u/Yvaelle Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23
Off-topic but what's your beef with Wagner musically?
Also the biggest real outcome of this is that if Wagner is ever operating outside Russia, or even on vacation, or just passing through the airport, they can end up in prison now.
Wagner was formerly the go-to mercs for doing war crimes all over the world, that gets a lot harder when you need to deploy a wetwork team to Morocco, but they can't fly through Europe or Turkey for fear of being detained at the airport. Similarly try getting from Moscow to South America without touching a Western country - it's all doable - but makes their lives harder and their service slower.
It also changes up the ROE. Before, they were foreign mercenaries who armies wouldn't openly engage because they had an ostensible reason to be on foreign battlefield. Now, as far as ROE goes, Wagner are armed criminals in a hostile environment - and can be assumed hostile. No more waving at their passing convoy on the road.
As far as when the Ukraine war ends, it's really just one option: Putin dies. So long as Putin lives he will not step down, so long as he rules he will not accept defeat in Ukraine, since he's incapable of winning in Ukraine - the war will only end when he dies.
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u/Great_Hamster Jan 20 '23
Not who you were replying to, but is someone who loves Wagner, I can understand how his bombastic style puts people off.
Plus the fact that he's so popular makes hipsters mad.
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u/bjornbamse Jan 21 '23
Wagner wrote movie music before movies were a thing. Actually, opera was not far off from what today's block busters are.
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u/Yvaelle Jan 20 '23
That makes sense, OP said 'detest' which felt too strong.
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u/hunterjc09 Jan 21 '23
If they’re a well studied classical musician they’ve probably had to study Wagner operas before, some of which last many hours. I haven’t even been forced to study Wagner but I can see why someone might use the word “detest” if they’d been recently subjected to hours upon hours of opera.
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u/agnostic_science Jan 20 '23
Do I see a way out of this conflict? I can't say that I do.
Maybe no quick way. The countries may have to grind against each other until there's a failure point, where one country can no longer continue, whether they wish to do so or not.
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u/divvip Jan 20 '23
I think folks sometimes get unnecessarily, though understandably, fixated on conclusions and endings. There is no end in sight for this war but the question I would pose is, from a strictly U.S./NATO strategic military point-of-view, should there be?
Putin is losing and becoming weaker every day and in every way while NATO has never been stronger; from a strictly strategic U.S./NATO military point-of-view, the continuation of this war is tenable and even preferable. I would even go so far as to say that this may be in part why the U.S./NATO has not given Ukraine certain weapons/technology that would significantly improve their offensive combat capabilities.
I would echo what you said though about the real benefits of this designation as for now it seems to amount to nothing more than official international name-calling.
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u/CanadianRaconteur Jan 20 '23
So Russia is draining NK of weapons too, that’s not the worst side news
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u/nomofica Jan 20 '23
NK weapons are probably in worse shape than Russian ones anyway lol
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u/CalmDebate Jan 20 '23
I would think they're quite a bit better, NK puts a lot into their military, I would imagine that while they are inferior technologically speaking, they take care of the weapons they do have so they aren't falling apart.
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u/Ok-Significance2532 Jan 20 '23
I always thought NK invests their money in cheap, robust and eazily repairable guns.
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u/CalmDebate Jan 20 '23
That would make sense to me, they play a numbers game, they have an enormous army for their population, they have the 4th highest amount of active troops of any country.
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u/throwthatshitbruh Jan 20 '23
Is that just a fancy way of saying terrorist group?
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u/Noisy-neighbour Jan 20 '23
Yes, In a roundabout way. Don't want to hurt their feelings, they're a bit touchy at the moment.
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u/PerNewton Jan 21 '23
Now do Xe. Or Blackwater. Or whatever it is Eric Prince calls his thugs these days.
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u/firem1ndr Jan 20 '23
right and a russian spokesperson said they weren’t a part of any russian military structure, so that means we can hit them with missiles right? right?
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u/Sengura Jan 20 '23
So what exactly does this mean? Are their members barred from all NATO countries? Will they be actively hunted by our militaries? Will their assets be frozen? Will they get a finger wag if we see them? What does this do?
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u/c4boom13 Jan 21 '23
All American assets are frozen and any United States based business is banned from funding, supplying, or providing any other support to them. Basically American financial institutions will be scanning accounts and transactions they process and stopping or seizing any transfers that are suspected to be related to Wagner. You can look into the Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) and its programs for detailed info.
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u/ThePersonalityChamp Jan 21 '23
Good call on calling them transnational, probably mind fucked a lot of republicans.
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u/vegetable_completed Jan 20 '23
US to classify shovel as digging instrument.
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u/noquarter53 Jan 20 '23
I get the snark, but these designations have specific legal authorities attached to them that unlocks tools to the administration. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/transnational-criminal-organizations
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u/5kM6v2FMKfN8WU6 Jan 21 '23
I get so tired of everyone trying to be clever in the comments. Words have meanings and labels are important. Plus i'd rather world governments follow whatever legal designations exist
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u/Fit-Seaworthiness437 Jan 20 '23
Do Black Water next :)
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u/sirblastalot Jan 20 '23
Hire blackwater to fight wagner. Whoever loses, it's still a win.
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u/GrantedPermission Jan 20 '23
*academi Edit: *constellis
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u/not---a---bot Jan 20 '23
they're Triple Canopy now.
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u/Lostredbackpack Jan 20 '23
TC was actually a competing firm and merged with Academi to form Constellis.
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u/Fit-Seaworthiness437 Jan 20 '23
They change names like I change socks, I think most people are familiar with them by Black Water, didn't even know they already dropped academi
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u/laserfox90 Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23
They're not gonna do that cause they're contractors for the CIA lol. Wagner is horrific but it's embarrassing to see americans act like this is a purely foreign problem.
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u/Howunbecomingofme Jan 20 '23
Erik Prince is a truly vile human. Dude should be in a deep dark hole for the rest of his life after the crimes against humanity caused by Blackwater/Xe/Academi/Constellis.
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u/Enlight1Oment Jan 20 '23
the problem was less that they weren't charged, as their members were tried and convicted, it was more after the fact they were still pardoned by Trump.
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u/JalenTargaryen Jan 21 '23
Good. Now do Blackwater or whatever they're calling themselves.
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u/Vertitto Jan 20 '23
took them long enough.
It's a joke that countries started to label Russia as terrorist state sooner than Wagner. It seems such no brainer to cut Wagner off from funds. Big PR win for countries and close to no cost
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u/Khoeth_Mora Jan 20 '23
unless its open season on wagner hunting its all just paperwork. They need to be labeled terrorists and taken down worldwide.
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u/DNAisjustneuteredRNA Jan 20 '23
Clever way to gain Republican support for Ukraine...
"Ukraine is being attacked by Trans soldiers, and they need our help!"
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u/Schenkspeare Jan 20 '23
This is like reading that the Surgeon General has decided smoking cigarettes was bad. I'm shocked this wasn't always the position on Wagner
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u/SignificantDetail822 Jan 20 '23
Can you imagine how Putin must feel about Prigozhin, I mean he’s the only one who claims to have made any gains in recent times in Ukraine and at the same time he’s the most likely one to want to put a bullet in Putin and take his place, Karma lol
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u/magistratemelvin Jan 21 '23 edited Jan 21 '23
Cool. Now do Blackwater.
Edit: not Blackrock.
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u/FeedAffectionate3558 Jan 20 '23
Still blown away the dude who created this shit is a catering CEO
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u/Infinite-Outcome-591 Jan 20 '23
A transnational terrorist organization !!! They murdered thousands in Africa.
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u/Ohnoyoudontyoushill Jan 21 '23
As opposed to Constellis (Blackwater) who only commit the right kind of atrocities. /s
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u/royal_dansk Jan 21 '23
But the Black Water still operates just under a new name. The US is such a hipocrite.
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u/modernangel Jan 21 '23
Totally unlike Blackwater / Academi / whatever name that US merc gang is hiding behind now. Eyeroll.
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u/doulikegamesltlman Jan 20 '23
So what does this actually mean for Wagner?
Is it just a strongly worded letter? Perhaps frozen bank accounts?
It would be nice if it meant Interpol is going to arrest Prighozin if he ever steps foot out of Russia.