r/dataisbeautiful OC: 9 Jan 26 '23

[OC] American attitudes toward political, activist, and extremist groups OC

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

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u/PortGlass Jan 26 '23

It’s a political group. They spend $15 or so million a year lobbying.

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u/N64Overclocked Jan 26 '23

Then why isn't Comcast on here? They spend way more than that.

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u/8yr0n Jan 26 '23 Take My Energy

Graph isn’t big enough to show a bar of how much people hate Comcast…..

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u/Ghostkill221 Jan 26 '23

Even the KKK hates Comcast.

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u/a-drowning-fish Jan 26 '23

The KKK actually uses Komkkast

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u/stonerdad999 Jan 27 '23

Komkast Kommunications

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u/MontEcola Jan 26 '23

I would like to see a chart like this with corporations listed, then divided into blue and red. AT&T, Walmart, Amazon, nike, Citibank, .Snapple. My pillow.

Who else?

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u/overzealous_dentist Jan 26 '23

Amazon was the most loved institution in the US on the last survey I saw, including better than the military

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u/DaoFerret Jan 26 '23

Just wait till the Alexa Peacekeeping Force comes into play and we’ll see if they still feel that way.

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u/reddit_noob125 Jan 26 '23

"Alexa, unlock my gun safe." "I'm sorry, John. I can't do that"

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u/BustinArant Jan 26 '23

Just when I overcome my fear of 1999's Smart House they pull me back in..

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u/OctaviusNeon Jan 27 '23

My only problem with this is I'm like 99% sure Alexa would just say *"Hmm, I don't know that." And then shut off.

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u/machton Jan 26 '23

Alexa, go quell the rebel uprising.

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u/KnowledgeableNip Jan 26 '23

"Got it, quelling Rebel Wilson"

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u/TacTurtle Jan 26 '23

Alex play Despatchio Insurrection

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u/Trolodrol Jan 26 '23

Jeff Bezo’s Alexa PMC

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u/Vhozite Jan 27 '23

Having known several people who worked there, that’s disgusting.

Even without that knowledge I can’t imagine loving a corporation

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u/100LittleButterflies Jan 26 '23

That's surprising, but it's probably true. I avoid Amazon as much as I can. How I spend my money is more powerful than my vote and I try to wield that bank account responsibly.

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u/godcixelsyd Jan 26 '23

It doesn't have everything you're wanting, but some good info around the concept.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/all-profiles

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u/MontEcola Jan 26 '23

Thank you.

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u/Verying Jan 26 '23

Comcast, delivering Americans from divisiveness one customer support call at a time.

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u/santa_veronica Jan 26 '23

It’s the only thing holding us together as a country

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u/ColoneISanders Jan 26 '23

Now that's a bipartisan hatred

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u/Effehezepe Jan 26 '23

John Oliver once said of Time Warner Cable that you've either never interacted with them and so have no opinion, or they've ruined your life.

Comcast is exactly the same.

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u/LeCrushinator Jan 26 '23

OP needs to switch to a logarithmic scale.

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u/tycooperaow Jan 26 '23

because they are a company not necessarily an organization that would fit the bill for an activist group

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u/_AlreadyTaken_ Jan 26 '23

That is correct. Just because I give some money to a group doesn't mean I'm suddenly an activist group myself.

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u/_AlreadyTaken_ Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

Comcast is a business that also donates to industry lobbying. AARP is a nonprofit dedicated to advocating for its members.

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u/vand3lay1ndustries Jan 26 '23

Don't you mean XfIniTY??

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u/OhMyGoth1 Jan 26 '23

Comcast's PAC donated less than $2m last year to federal candidates (source), also Comcast is a corporation, not an activist or political group

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u/clekas Jan 26 '23

Comcast spent about $11 million last year on lobbying. (source)

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u/SaveOurBolts Jan 26 '23

Not enough red ink for the comcast lines

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u/Kwetla Jan 26 '23

What even is AARP? It's the only acronym without an explanation.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

[deleted]

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u/kain52002 Jan 26 '23

It's like Geico. Most people dont realize that was an acronym for Government Employee Insurance Company

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u/RedditWillSlowlyDie Jan 26 '23

But AARP still represents retired people. GEICO has been selling insurance to everyone, not just government employees, since 1974. GEICO's original meaning is now irrelevant whereas AARP's original meaning is still applicable.

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u/OctaviusNeon Jan 27 '23

Found the Geico gecko's account.

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u/Needleroozer Jan 26 '23

Hard to believe Republicans think less of them than Democrats. They must think AARP somehow gets tax money.

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u/TiberiusCornelius Jan 26 '23

Yeah that one surprised me. The only thing I can think is the AARP pretty regularly lobbies against proposed changes or cuts to Social Security & Medicare, like the ones Bush tried or when Obama tried to flip to chained CPI. They also backed Obamacare and opposed efforts to repeal it (although they also regularly oppose single-payer).

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u/Striking_Extent Jan 27 '23

They have been backing the Medicare privatization scheme that is Medicare Advantage recently. Possibly because they have their own advantage plans they make money from.

https://www.levernews.com/why-is-aarp-boosting-medicare-privatization/

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/_far-seeker_ Jan 26 '23

Your opinion of AARP probably won't change much after the research. I haven't been able to find any past scandals or significant duplicity at the organizational level.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

[deleted]

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u/BloodBlizzard Jan 26 '23

What do they do with the rest of their money?

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u/FQVBSina Jan 26 '23

They help retired people secure food and stuff. Lots of shops like Walgreens accept AARP cards for discounts and etc.

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u/byingling Jan 27 '23

One very big thing: They partner with and work with insurance companies to get better rates for their members on health, home, and auto insurance.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

[deleted]

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u/KeepIt2Virgils Jan 26 '23

Pay Denny's to ensure the senior breakfast discounts continue

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u/ialsoagree Jan 26 '23

I'm trying to figure out how All Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter have a higher favorability than the ACLU.

Am I completely off base when I say that the ACLU has a long history of advocating for positions that both the left and right would agree with? I know that the ACLU gets a wrap as being a liberal organization, but they're really just about... well... civil liberties. I mean, it's in the name...

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u/NyranK Jan 26 '23

The ACLU, historically, would fight for the right to free speech from a lot of... unfavourable groups. They even defended the right to protest for Neo-Nazis in Chicago back in the 70s, right up to Alt Right groups in 2017.

But they've changed in recent years to be more selective in whose rights they'll fight for, and have taken the stance of banning support for any protest involving firearms. This also includes standing against Title IX changes which, depending on your viewpoint, is actively working against the 'presumption of innocence'.

The ACLU used to be pretty damn unshakable in their ethos, which would have pissed off a lot of people. And now they're very shakable and very different to the ACLU of old, which can piss off an entirely new group of people.

People will remember the negatives more by default, as well.

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u/solid_reign Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

For anyone who cares about these things, fire is taking the space left by the ACLU, at least in the right to free speech. They tweeted this some time ago:

On a public campus, you can express opinions not everyone agrees with. You can drag the Queen, or be a drag queen.

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u/jrrfolkien OC: 1 Jan 26 '23

This also includes standing against Title IX changes which, depending on your viewpoint, is actively working against the 'presumption of innocence'.

Could you explain this further? All I know is that Title IX is supposed to protect against sex discrimination in school - so not much at all

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u/AuroraHalsey Jan 26 '23

Two main issues with Title IX:

  • It requires equal opportunities in clubs and sports for men and women, but it doesn't state how this must be achieved. As such, schools often close the clubs and sports for men rather than starting ones for women.

  • Safeguarding means that people who are accused of sexual offences are often removed from school pending an investigation. This leads to cases where even though people aren't found guilty of anything, they've lost their educational and career opportunities.

This article can explain better than I can: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-campus-rape-policy/538974/

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u/Flipz100 Jan 26 '23

Basically Title IX requires that schools and universities that receive federal funding must respond to potential cases of sexual harassment or violence "promptly and equitably" with not a lot of definition of what that means. The school is beholden to this responsibility regardless if anyone actually involved in the incident has filed a complaint and/or there is an on going criminal investigation. The argument goes that this system effectively encourages schools to act quickly without a lot of investigation or evidence in cases in order to up keep their federal funding, as they might otherwise be caught under not acting "promptly".

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u/SleepingScissors Jan 27 '23

I hold that the ACLUs defense of the Neo-Nazis in Skokie IL is one of the greatest displays of the ideal American ethos in the entire history of this country. It's truly "walking the walk" of "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".

If the Nazis were prevented from holding their parade, they would have become political martyrs and made hypocrites out of the US government. Instead they became a laughing stock and dissolved a few years later.

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u/Tancread-of-Galilee Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

It follows in the initial legacy set by John Adams when he actively defended British Soldiers who committed the Bottom Massacre, in court after the Revolutionary War, on essentially the same basis that the right to representation at court was not limited by any action or status regardless of how heinous in the public eye.

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u/DannyColliflower Jan 27 '23

You thinking of John Adams defending the Boston Massacre soldiers?

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u/Not_FinancialAdvice Jan 27 '23

I hold that the ACLUs defense of the Neo-Nazis in Skokie IL is one of the greatest displays of the ideal American ethos in the entire history of this country

Led by a Jewish lawyer as well: https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/rights-protesters/skokie-case-how-i-came-represent-free-speech-rights-nazis

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u/Separatist_Pat Jan 26 '23

Part of that ACLU history is advocating against religion and prayer in schools, which not everyone agrees with. I could see that running them afoul of a good number of folks.

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u/jsprague6 Jan 26 '23

Yeah they've historically been a big advocate for the separation of church and state, which makes them very unpopular with the religious right.

I grew up in a small, rural, very conservative town, and one of the biggest town controversies that I remember from my childhood involved the ACLU. The town sits in a valley and there's a mountain named after the town which for many years had a large white wooden cross at the top. It was visible from the whole valley, got lit up at night, and was an iconic landmark for the area. It was also on city property.

Around the year 2000, it got burned down by vandals. The city wanted to rebuild it, but someone notified the ACLU and then the ACLU threatened the city with a lawsuit if they rebuilt the cross on city property. There was private property a few hundred feet away from the original spot, and the landowner rebuilt the cross there. So the cross still exists, but the town still holds a grudge toward the ACLU.

Most of my family is very religious, so I've heard lots of other stories like this. For people who feel like christians are persecuted in this country (they aren't), the ACLU is often one of the main antagonists in their story.

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u/cgreen2323 Jan 26 '23

To make the obvious point, this should not be seen as “persecution” of Christians, but as protecting Jews, atheists et al from government-sponsored promotion of one religion over all others. Freedom of religion originally meant, and should still mean, that all are free to believe and practice what they want, without the heavy hand of majoritarian government putting its thumb on the scales.

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u/Cultjam Jan 26 '23

Protects Christians too. Christianity is not one big happy family with homogenous beliefs. They often forget they have a murderous history of killing each other for “heresy.” The Puritans didn’t come to the New World for adventure.

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u/Egechem Jan 26 '23

"To those accustomed to privilege, equality feel like oppression" -Unknown

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u/BearDave Jan 26 '23

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html

This is an NYT article from 2021 about the ACLU and how its changed.

In short the ACLU of the past protected the rights of the KKK to hold demonstrations, while also protecting communists. It wasn't beholden to a cause beyond protecting the first amendment and in general peoples rights, it was an organization set out to defend people from the government.

Yes that made it enemies, but it also made it allies. People often associated the ACLU with idealism, sometimes misplaced or misguided youthful idealism that they disagreed with but idealism none the less.

Though by the time of Trump things had changed. The ACLU expanded ever more and yet it didn't expand its first amendment specialty. The ACLU proclaimed itself an "enemy of Trump" an insturment set on resisting and taking down the newly elected president. They were no longer an impartial idealist rising above biases to do "whats right" as defined by the constitution but instead activsts no different than a legion of others.

Their story about David Goldberger being honored by the modern ACLU and his reaction to the modern ACLU almost perfectly incapsulates why a modern person who is not blindly loyal to the modern ACLUs biases would find the organization untrustworthy or just not held in high regards (atleast as compared to the 90s and previously).
David Goldberger was the jewish lawyer for defended the KKK on behalf of the ACLU back in the day. Needless to say his personal views do not align with the KKK in any fashion, but he still defended their first amendment rights.

If your personal views align with those of the modern ACLU you might not really care. Though I can say for me personally I used to support the ACLU and even did some volunteer work for them, I could never see myself supporting them without some real change in their stances and policies. I look at people like David Goldberger as a hero, and the modern ACLU isn't his ACLU anymore.

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u/allthenewsfittoprint Jan 26 '23

Additionally, the ACLU has given up their strong stances on many civil liberties, instead arguing in more recent years for racially segregated school dorms, diminished due process protections for those accused of crimes, and lessened protections for free speech. More recent ACLU guidelines have warned against taking cases that might "give offense to marginalized groups" directly contrasting the ACLU's former position of defending anyone's civil liberties; most famously evidenced by their 1970s case protecting neo-nazi protests.

Furthermore, the ACLU has been straying further and further from its historical non-partisanship, going so far as to fund ad campaigns for or against various US politicians. Combine this with the ACLU's famous dismissal of 2nd amendment rights, their support for Amber Heard in the trial with Johnny Depp, and a number of rash and inflammatory tweets and one can see how the ACLU can be seen as subverting its own mission or -even worse- suppressing other's civil liberties.

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u/Kered13 Jan 26 '23

Basically, the modern ACLU has become less principled and more plainly political. It's no longer really a group for defending the First Amendment, it's now a group for defending left wing First Amendment issues, and ignoring if not attacking right wing First Amendment issues.

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u/andybmcc Jan 26 '23

The ACLU isn't what it used to be.

I'm more surprised that PETA is that high.

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u/anonkitty2 Jan 26 '23

Not everyone knows what PETA does. Their most controversial work happened during the 1990s.

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u/Ok-Television-65 Jan 26 '23

PETA is is one of the worst animal rights organizations compared to much better ones like ASPCA and the Humane Society, but for some reason they are way more popular than the rest.

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u/theflintseeker Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

I can’t find any approval ratings for aspca or humane but I would be floored if theirs is lower than PETA. They are looked upon quite positively from what I know.

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u/Naxela Jan 26 '23

Am I completely off base when I say that the ACLU has a long history of advocating for positions that both the left and right would agree with?

The ACLU has changed a lot since 2016 when their fundraising support saw huge waves when they upheld the rights of controversial groups, something that they've historically been very good at doing.

As a longtime supporter of the ACLU in my late teens and early 20s, I barely recognize them nowadays, and instead I support organizations such as FIRE and FAIR which in my opinion have taken the mantle of the champions of liberal civil rights independent of political side from the ACLU.

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u/killzone3abc Jan 26 '23

ACLU has fallen off pretty hard in recent years.

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u/moosenlad Jan 26 '23

The ACLU in modern times has taken less firm stances on certain civil liberties that the right dislikes their stance on. Namely the 1st and 2nd amendment, following the more recent interpretation of them being "collective rights" instead of civil rights. And has at the best not fought for, or at the worst fought against civilian firearm ownership, and protecting speech even if some consider it misinformation

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u/Bells_Ringing Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

You’re pretty off base on ACLU. They once putatively focused solely on first amendment matters, even famously defending the KKK against discrimination of access to have a march/protest in Wisconsin I believe.

Since then, they’ve in large part moved away from that singular focus on first amendment and have become largely a lobbying and legal group focused on leftist initiatives. They’ve now famously refused to defend people they disagree with or even writing amicus briefs in favor of suppressing first amendment rights of parties they disagree with.

To;dr- They basically have just turned into a leftist organization entirely rather than a first amendment organization

Edit: it was nazis in Illinois that they defended. A Jewish attorney defended literal nazis and their right to be authorized to host a march. Compare that to whatever bogeyman you have in mind for speech they won’t support today

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u/mistertireworld Jan 27 '23

I hate Illinois Nazis.

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u/CrunchyAl Jan 26 '23

How the hell is PETA in the green?

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u/that_weird_hellspawn Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

They did a lot of good in the 1980's. They pushed real animal cruelty into the public eye. As someone who works in research, I was told the the 80's were a wild time when people could get away with gross mistreatment. Now, there's a lot of regulation in place to ensure that laboratory animals do not suffer.

We've grown quite a bit as a society to the point that PETA has less of a purpose than they once did. However, I am grateful for their past work in helping to get us here.

Edit: A reminder that there are a lot of good things here that they've done just this past year.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

[deleted]

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u/that_weird_hellspawn Jan 26 '23

I agree. I'm young too and consider them like any other interest group. Most people are middle of the road on a lot of issues, but groups like them have to be 100% on one side. Just like the NRA lobbies against any type of gun restrictions whatsoever, even ones that most people would agree are fair, PETA will do protests that most see as way too far.

So yeah, their image isn't great. Seeing the support in this infographic was surprising, but I don't think they're all that evil. They've done a lot of good that has really been overshadowed by the bad publicity as of late.

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u/gatito-blade Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

Especially when a lot of the negativity is based on exaggeration bordering on fabrication, like PETA wanting to steal and kill all pets. Two employees took a dog by mistake thinking it was feral and broke the law euthanizing it early, PETA fired them immediately and apologized to the family and even the family agreed it was a terrible accident. But, sure, PETA wants to personally kill your pets, even though they literally have office dogs.

The criticism concerning the statistics for their euthanasia rates in their shelters is at least relevant, but ultimately it comes down to there being millions of unwanted pets, even perfectly healthy ones, and not a fraction of enough households to take them in. Honestly, I'd rather an animal be given a peaceful end than left to starve or be hit by a car or even spend years trapped in a cage. It's unfortunate, but the fact that this ballooned into a narrative about PETA being bloodthirsty pet killers is just absurd and comes across as astroturfing

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u/ElGosso Jan 27 '23

Almost all of the online discourse has been polluted by a website called PETAKillsAnimals which is run by a lobbyist for the meat industry and was started after PETA released videos inside factory farms.

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u/Captainsnake04 Jan 26 '23

Because as far as I’m aware the pervasive dislike of PETA online doesn’t really extend beyond the internet into the real world.

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u/fatamSC2 Jan 26 '23

Eh i don't know, every time I've heard PETA come up in conversation in the real world it's been with a negative connotation, usually to do with their ridiculous way over the top protests. I mean people don't have a virulent hatred of them but it's always more of a passive "oh yeah, those clowns"

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u/serpentjaguar Jan 26 '23

Or the Aryan Brotherhood, which is unequivocally an organized crime organization with no real ideology apart from loyalty to The Brand. They are nominally white supremacists, but in practice anything to do with racial hierarchy is of secondary importance to the bottom line.

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u/myspicename Jan 26 '23

It's a group with a political and social bent?

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u/Freeiheit Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

It’s interesting that republicans disapprove of the kkk more than democrats, even if only by 5%. Who are these 27% of democrats that don’t disapprove of the kkk?

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u/highschoolhero2 Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23 Take My Energy

Both of those percentages are way too high for me to believe it’s accurate. There’s no possible way that more than 10% of people from either party would say that they had a favorable view towards one of the most universally denounced hate groups in human history.

Even as unpopular as our government is I find it extremely hard to accept that the Ku Klux Klan has a higher approval rating than the US Congress.

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u/celerybration Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

These graphs don’t say how many people had a favorable view, so the number is probably close to 0. The numbers on the graph only show the difference between favorable and unfavorable, but don’t account for null responses like “no opinion”.

The raw data might show something like Favorable: 0%, Unfavorable: 75%, No opinion/ neutral: 25%

Edit: here is the raw data and it shows 6% favorable to KKK

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u/CryptoBoot11 Jan 26 '23

Mhm 7% of black people have a favorable view of the KKK. These results seem wildly suspicious.

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u/celerybration Jan 26 '23

That’s the unfortunate reality of web-based polls. You get trolls, people intentionally steering poll data, and people selecting answers at random in order to just complete the poll.

Or the KKK has a fantastic PR team in some corners of the country, I have no idea.

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u/Time-to-go-home Jan 27 '23

I used to play RuneScape a lot and you could earn some in-game keys or currency by completing online surveys.

They were always marketing surveys, but I BSed them all. “Why yes, I am a 50-75 year old Asian woman who is considering buying a new dishwasher in the next 2-3 months.” If I ever put the truth of “I’m a teenage white boy. Give me my free keys.” I’d just get a message saying the survey has had enough respondents already.

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u/ausecko Jan 27 '23

I used to do paid in-person surveys, where they sent out an online demographic filter to see if they wanted you it not. They'd pay $50 most times, but I was nearly always excluded for being young, white and male. At least they would say which of those three was the reason most times (e.g. sorry we're looking for retirees, sorry we're looking for professional women, etc.) Harder to get away with lying with these of you're nota makeup artist

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u/thedvorakian Jan 26 '23

Our history books said they gained power by offering school lunches to children

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u/Gtpwoody Jan 26 '23

There's also Daryl Davis, the black jazz musician who has reportedly been responsible for hundreds of KKK members turning in their robes.

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u/RudolfRockerRoller Jan 27 '23

Yougov uses the internet to do its polling. It’s not that difficult for terminally online dorks from places like 8kun to make a wack load of sock accounts to skew something specifically about black Democrats liking the klan & the AB.
FFS, “All/Lives Blue Lives Matter” are suspiciously high as well.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

KKK and Aryan Brotherhood both have higher favorable ratings amongst black people as a percentage. I think they might have had a few trolls.

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u/WalrusEunoia Jan 26 '23

In another comment, people talk about the “Lizardman Constant”— in online polls, around 4% of responses are people who believe the world is run by little lizard men, or something, but in actuality, it’s just people who are ‘trolling’ the survey or really just don’t give a shit.

So you can take all of these percentages and subtract like 4-5%.

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u/clamroll Jan 27 '23

Except there's really lizard men who control the world.

Jk, but I honestly knew a couple people who not only believed that (back in like 2011, pre qanon etc) but the shit they went off on.... Lizard people infiltrating every world government at every level was surprisingly on the more plausible end of their spectrum. Or at least not something lifted directly from Stargate ("stargate actually gets a lot of stuff right, you know!" A phrase that will forever echo in my head)

So while I'm sure some of those "lizardman constant" folks are indeed just trolls, there's no shortage of gullible people, conspiracy obsessed weirdos, and straight up mentally ill people not getting the treatment they need

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u/blueg3 Jan 27 '23

Mhm 7% of black people have a favorable view of the KKK. These results seem wildly suspicious.

That's pretty close to Lizardman's Constant, though.

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u/Un111KnoWn Jan 27 '23

dataisbeatiful and coolguides are terrible subreddits. Constantly post shit graphs with "fancy" images.

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u/DanielEnots Jan 26 '23

Oh no you misunderstood! They had the positive "approves" and negative "disapproves" together to make a sort of average style number.

So if 13/100 said approve and 87/100 said disapprove that's (-87) + (13) = -74

I assume that it was using decimals as the average out of 100 and then rounded.

Either way that is STILL a lot of misguided people...

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u/PedanticPlatypodes Jan 26 '23

Their primary point about more democrats supporting the KKK than republicans in this graphic is still valid

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u/highschoolhero2 Jan 26 '23

How would averaging them out like that provide any insight into the data as opposed to presenting each poll as 2 separate data points?

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u/DanielEnots Jan 26 '23

It shows where the general total opinion falls but I personally don't actually like it much myself.

It gives the impression that middle of the road is everyone's a opinion but it could be polar opposites OR middle of the road and you wouldn't know the difference.

Generally having BOTH is best but the average person doesn't know all the weird details needed so simple and clear is usually the best route. 2 separate data points is my preference

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u/elveszett OC: 2 Jan 26 '23

It's basically a complicated way to draw a line at 50%. Each number you see here is twice the percentage of approvals minus 100. 0% is -100, 50% is 0 and 100% is 100.

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u/seanofthebread Jan 26 '23

I would also like to meet these misguided people. It looks like the data is pretty flawed, according to comments discussing YouGov data practices in higher comments.

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u/Glittering-Jello-935 Jan 26 '23

All Lives Matter is a group?

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u/PessimisticProphet Jan 26 '23

I assume the poll asked people to rate it as if it was

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u/_Happy_Sisyphus_ Jan 27 '23

I’m also disturbed blue live matter has a more positive view than the group they stole it from

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u/TylerDurden626 Jan 27 '23

I think people take “Blue Lives matter” as “I support law enforcement”. It’s not really an organization

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u/BennyBoyMerry Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

Something that needs to be considered here is what the lines actually show. The "KKK" line doesnt mean that 76% of adults in America disapprove of this group. It means that there is "A 76 Percentage Point Difference" between the percentage of adults (out of 100) that approve and dissapprove of each group. It's a bit of a bad representation graphically IMO.

If 10% of American Adults approve of a group, then by default 90% disapprove of that group with an 80% (negative or red line) difference between the percentage of adults (out of 100) that approve and dissapprove of each group, assuming it is a black and white, A/B analysis with only two available options. This all changes if the survey participants are allowed to neither approve or disapprove, but let's pretend that's not the case.

If 12% of Adults approve of the KKK then by default 88% disapprove, leading to the representation of a 76% (negative or red line) difference you see displayed in the graph above. Kind of changes the message for me.

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u/police-ical Jan 26 '23

In this case the KKK's total of "somewhat favorable" or "very favorable" was 6%, which in polling terms is maybe a little above zero.

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u/Notoriouslydishonest Jan 26 '23

You have to factor in the lizardman constant.

In polls like this, a small number of people will vote for ridiculous things they don't actually believe in. Maybe they rushed through the questions without reading, maybe they thought it was funny, maybe they clicked the wrong button, etc.

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u/alohadave Jan 26 '23

Someone posted about the lizardman constant yesterday in /r/MapPorn and an example was that 100 people were polled and asked if they had been decapitated, 4 people said yes.

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u/Ahaigh9877 Jan 26 '23

It’s awfully tempting to answer like that.

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u/nam24 Jan 27 '23

No you don't understand they are protagonist

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u/NyranK Jan 26 '23

Mr Potato Head apparently gets a decent number of votes every election here in Aus.

Makes me wonder why we can't just act like normal people and just elect a dog.

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u/Artanis12 Jan 26 '23

Weren't those just votes for Scott Morrison?

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u/n120leb Jan 26 '23

I have never heard of the lizardman constant and that article was super interesting. Thanks for linking to it!!

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u/Orangutanion Jan 26 '23

Voting Lizardman is a right that's slowly fading away. You can't really trust any polling to be anonymous anymore, because that kind of data is extremely valuable. If someone jokingly votes for something ridiculous, data of them voting for that is sold, and when it goes through the data aggregation pipeline, it ends up being taken 100% seriously.

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u/_masterofdisaster Jan 26 '23

My sister found this out the hard way last semester when she filled out insurance application forms or something as a part of a finance class she was taking, and used our dad’s phone number just as a place holder. Turns out that data was shared and sold and my dad was inundated with phone calls as a result. Eventually he just started telling them straight up what the deal was and one of the callers admitted that he had paid money for the lead lmao

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u/Orangutanion Jan 26 '23

You know, this would be a fun thing to turn into a lesson to teach kids in school. Have them fill out some bogus survey that they think just goes to the teachers, but then discreetly hand out their answers to other students.

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u/azurensis Jan 26 '23

Or maybe they're just really, really dumb. The bottom 10 percentile can be reliably counted on to misunderstand just about any question.

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u/suchahotmess Jan 26 '23

Apparently something like 6% of Americans, when polled, say they could win a hand to hand fight against a bear. I try to keep that in context when reading poll results.

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u/mf279801 Jan 26 '23

Is that an example of 6% of the population being dumb, or 6% of the population treating a joke of a poll with exactly as much seriousness as it deserves?

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u/suchahotmess Jan 26 '23

I’m genuinely not sure so I take it as a reminder to be aware of both issues.

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u/andtheniansaid Jan 26 '23

I'm realizing now, that because this graph includes odd numbers, there must have been the option for people to answer "No Opinion" or "Never Heard of Them"

It doesn't require that at all. If you have 37.5% like a group and 62.5% disapprove, you'll end up with a 25% disapproval.

I think the representation is fine myself, though I'm quite used to seeing net favourability graphs. I feel they are pretty mainstream in american politics too though? And 'never heard of'/'no opinion' never features in net favourability.

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u/redlila Jan 26 '23

Also the ordering changing from table 1 to table 2 muddies the readability of the data

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u/tyen0 OC: 2 Jan 26 '23

This is from people that filled in an online survey on a website that is built to farm views (which is why they advertise here, too). Your gripes are fair, but it's much worse than that.

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u/1zzie Jan 26 '23

Usually yougov will state that they omitted no opinion/dk etc but the don't here, and it's probably a point of interest to know which party refuses to state an opinion more.

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u/myspicename Jan 26 '23

All Lives Matter isn't a group in any sense of the word. It's just a retort.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

And yet...

This list is particularly disturbing frankly. In many ways.

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u/R101C Jan 26 '23

Like the existence of the idea "blue lives matter."

When a cop dies at work we throw a parade (sad kind, not happy kind). When a road worker dies at work, we hardly take notice.

Safety green lives matter? Or road work isn't important?

Im not saying a life lost at work as a cop isn't a problem. I'm saying lots of people face risks at work and we already recognize one group far more than others. It's an unnecessary culture war talking point.

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u/WifeGuyMenelaus Jan 26 '23

I think a sad parade is called a procession

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

The fact that it only came into existence to oppose BLM, which evolved as a direct response to very real circumstances, and yet is shown as on this chart, and compared to BLM on this chart, points to some extremely disturbing fundamental issues in the US.

How do you even start addressing these problems in a meaningful way when the problems are at the fundamental core of American Culture and society?

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u/Kidus333 Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

You can't, not without making news media accountable for spreading mass misinformation.

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u/fishscamp Jan 26 '23

You start a No Lives Matter group.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

Somewhere a nihilist just became aroused

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u/fishscamp Jan 27 '23

Life has meaning when you aren’t the center of the universe.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

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u/Jacuul Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

Neither is Antifa, which tells you the general level of discourse going on, a fictional group is hated the same amount as a group that is a domestic terror organization. To use an opposite example, it'd be like if you used "White Supremacist" as a group, it's not a group, it's a label, you can have white supremacist groups like you can have anti-facist groups, but calling Antifa an organization is just a scare tactic

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u/RatBrainedManAnimal Jan 26 '23

which tells you the general level of discourse going on, a fictional group is hated the same amount as a group that is a domestic terror organization.

OR or...the media wants people to be upset regardless of political affiliation. This reeks of clickbait.

It's like someone dropping a hundred dollar bill in a group of teens and going 'fight! fight!' while they record it

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u/killzone3abc Jan 26 '23

Semantically you are both right and wrong. Yall do this on purpose to confuse people. There is no national antifa group, but there are many groups across the country that identify as antifa. Referring to antifa is largely understood to be about these groups. Your example is largely the same, but nobody is trying to defend the concept of white supremacy and white supremacy groups by saying it doesn't exist.

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u/kindle139 Jan 26 '23

Well articulated. There’s reality, and there’s how we discuss it using words.

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u/frogvscrab Jan 26 '23

Antifa is a 'group' in the sense that it is a protest movement. It is not an organization though, and that is a big difference.

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u/Orangutanion Jan 26 '23

Same can be said for Blue Lives Matter

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u/Kered13 Jan 26 '23

There is no single nationwide Antifa organization, but there are locally organized groups that use the name, generally share common political beliefs and practices, and occasionally communicate and coordinate.

Which is the exact same way that the Klan is organized. Which is not to say that this form of organization is inherently evil or anything, I'm just pointing out that if you want to say that "Antfa is not an organization" then you'd also have to acknowledge that the Klan is not an organization.

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u/KellyKellogs OC: 2 Jan 26 '23

There are small orgs that call themselves antifa inspired by the failed 1930s era Antifa movement.

Like other groups, they do not have a central leadership but there are groups who call themselves Antifa.

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u/seanofkelley Jan 26 '23

I honestly think the biggest shock to me on here is that the GOP approval rating for the AARP isn't higher. Like they're not a strictly conservative group, but the center of the Venn Diagram of GOP voters and AARP members, I would think, is pretty large.

But maybe I'm wrong!

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u/marigolds6 Jan 26 '23

Probably the biggest separation is that the AARP is by far the biggest political lobby group for socialized medicine. Plus they made some political enemies during the pandemic when they came out in support of mandatory viral testing (not just covid) and mandatory masking, social distancing, and contract tracing (i.e. with government penalties for not participating). They have lots of other deciding left leaning causes they lobby for, such that probably many of the eligible people who choose not to join AARP are Republicans.

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u/seanofkelley Jan 26 '23

Knowing that, I'd be interested to see the pre and post pandemic numbers here

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u/Rough_Grapefruit_796 Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

It’s skewed by the massive neither favorable or unfavorable, and I’m not familiar with this views of young and middle aged people. Young people also have have a higher percentage of unfavorable views.

Plus these are weighted totals and younger people are underrepresented. The individual vote of younger people is worth more than an older persons and if a small percentage of young people identify as Republican that could give a small group of young republicans a huge percentage of the weighted total. The I’m not familiar with this would also decrease the sample size and further skew the weighted total.

The raw data doesn’t include how they weight the totals. So it’s hard to get a perfect picture of what’s going on but that’s my best guess.

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u/Beej67 OC: 5 Jan 26 '23

Republicans disfavor the KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood more than Democrats do.

Interesting.

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u/serpentjaguar Jan 26 '23

What is AB even doing here? It's a fucking organized crime syndicate, not a political group. It's like including la Cosa Nostra or MS13.

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u/ReverESP Jan 26 '23

"Pablo Escobar did nothing wrong"

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u/eternalankh Jan 26 '23

not a political group.

It is an extremist group though.

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u/TheCaspica Jan 26 '23

Yet they're more favourably looked upon than KKK.

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u/Tancread-of-Galilee Jan 27 '23

To be fair just about everyone is better looked on than the KKK.

The KKK

  1. Obviously abuse Black People
  2. Deface Christian religious symbols
  3. Abuse Muslims
  4. Post 1950's started abusing Jews
  5. Abuse LGBT people

That's uh... Probably over 90% of the US population.

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u/SteakMedium4871 Jan 26 '23 Take My Energy

I find it interesting people assume democrats aren't racist.

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u/BagOnuts Jan 26 '23

Yup. Union boys. Dixiecrat holdovers. Hell, the freakin Westboro Baptist Church are Democrats.

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u/seanofthebread Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

Seems like a nominal difference. Still would like straighten out whoever likes the KKK, personally.

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u/immaterialist Jan 26 '23

Yeah really. Who is out there saying that the KKK is bad but Aryan Brotherhood is fine?

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u/Obilis Jan 26 '23

Probably people who don't know what "Aryan" means, and then checked the "No Opinion" option.

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u/Showerthawts Jan 26 '23

Looks like based on the data we need to start a war against the Aryan Brotherhood to bring the nation together.

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u/boersc Jan 26 '23

Pretty weird that PETA comes out positive. Must be their history of using nude models.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

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u/Pojomofo Jan 26 '23

This is what stuck out to me as well, I would have bet my dogs life that they would have been overwhelmingly negative.

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u/freeradicalx Jan 26 '23

I think I see exactly where you and PETA diverge ideologically XD

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u/theonebigrigg Jan 26 '23

Because this specific strain of meat industry propaganda is basically only an online thing.

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u/Backdoor_Delivery Jan 26 '23

I’m a gun owner and hate the NRA. They suck at doing the one thing they were stood up to do.

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u/PeanutArtillery Jan 27 '23

Same. The NRA are a bunch of big government bootlickers.

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u/SashaAndTheCity Jan 26 '23

The second chart made far more sense to me.

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u/GermanoMuricano117 Jan 26 '23

Proud Boys and Antifa being neck and neck sounds exactly like the opinions I hear from real Americans (not weirdos on reddit/twitter).

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u/Chubs1224 Jan 26 '23

I want to see if Proud Boys is significantly different from other "alt right" groups like III%ers and Boogaloo Bois.

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u/seanofthebread Jan 26 '23

The way I see it is politics and experience. My town has a proud boys chapter, and I think they’re assholes. However, I have never seen “Antifa.” But if someone else had a bad experience with Antifa, and no experience with proud boys, maybe they would have the opposed position.

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u/GermanoMuricano117 Jan 26 '23

Very good point honestly, I live in a big blue city so I've never even thought about Proud Boys in my life but today at 3pm were having ANOTHER emergency meeting (for the 7th or 8th time in the last few years) about whether or not to shut down the business for the weekend because of whatever the hell Antifa has planned for our city in the wake of the Memphis situation.

I see my Mexican community near me acts a little different around black people since the Summer of 2020 when it felt like my neighborhood was under siege.

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u/AnotherEuroWanker Jan 26 '23

There's an Advanced Address Resolution Protocol? Count me in favour!

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u/TehChid Jan 26 '23

Now do the same but ask about some of the ideologies of these groups instead of using their names

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u/DrTitanicua Jan 27 '23

Even better, we describe famous/infamous past events they did. So people can decide based on that and be surprised by what group caused it.

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u/_AlreadyTaken_ Jan 26 '23

I think the KKK gets far more attention than its numbers can really justify.

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u/_iam_that_iam_ Jan 26 '23

There are a lot of movements I feel positive towards, but I feel like all of the organizations are corrupt leeches feeding off the movement.

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u/Frequent_Section1710 Jan 26 '23

On man. Even Democrats have a negative view of antifa. Reddit is going to be big mad.

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u/derpMaster7890 Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

...how the heck is PETA so far up that list? They're like the Evangelical Christians of veganism. They make us normal vegetarians look like asshats.

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u/Darth_Ra Jan 26 '23

Wow, All Lives Matter at +21 is insane.

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u/Naxela Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

All lives matter is just a slogan too, not even a group or an ideology of any sort.

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u/pinkshirtbadman Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

If you think about it with the mindset that it's not a specific organization it actually makes a weird kind of sense to be overall positive feelings. I have a suspicion that a lot of respondents essentially approached it assuming that without a specific organized group to ascribe it to it's simply a "true" statement and therefore finding it unfavorable would be akin to taking the position that it's not true. I'd hope you'd find relatively few people essentially be willing to go on the record saying that it's not true that all lives matter.

The people finding it unfavorable are of course connecting it very specifically to a racist anti-BLM mindset, of which they obviously disapprove. The people finding it favorable are likely intending to just be saying "yes, that's true" even if they disapprove of the reason the slogan exists ( which is basically diminishing the struggle of others)

ETA - There's at least one person in the comments below that basically said this was exactly what they thought. They saw "all live matter" and assumed that was a positive thing, because in a vacuum it is a positive life affirming sentiment that just simply makes sense to someone that cares about human beings. Only after googling it did they realize the implication of the statement

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u/thzmand Jan 26 '23

Think about the geography and size of the country. Makes perfect sense to me, especially if you understand it as "anti-BLM" and just a reaction. E.g. the tea party was really the anti obama party and it turns out not many folks are into colonial dress and carrying around copies of the constitution. They just hated obama. A little bit of every group hates BLM (they are uniquely hate-able as an agitator group and a vacuum for lots of people's donations), so the results makes sense to me: most people reject BLM and approve of the movement that exists to oppose it.

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u/Calgrei Jan 26 '23

Unbiased take: Republicans have a negative opinion on way more groups than Democrats

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u/Isuckmangosforalivin Jan 26 '23

I don’t think it’s an unbiased take if you’re just saying what the graph says…

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u/Old_Alternative2197 Jan 26 '23

Unbiased take: Americans really disapprove of the KKK

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u/VirusTimes Jan 27 '23

It’s biased in the sense that the only groups considered are the ones that are polled and it’s unclear if it’s a representative sample. Still, not the most traditional use of the word biased.

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u/FleurOuAne Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 27 '23

Among the groups of this graph*

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