r/NatureIsFuckingLit
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u/RamblingSimian
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Dec 08 '22
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đ„Photographer Mark Laita Was Bitten by a Black Mamba and Didn't Realize he Captured the Event with his Camera. He Survived Without Antivenom. Links in Comments.
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u/reilly_nore
Dec 08 '22
edited Dec 08 '22
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Isnât the survival rate WITH anti venom still only like 50%? Three possibilities in my opinion:
1) he did seek medical attention
2) the snake had its venom glands removed
3) he is the dumbest motherfucker on planet earth and won the anti-Darwin lottery
Edit: to everyone commenting it was a dry bite, thatâs included in #3, because anyone who gets bit by a mamba and doesnât immediately go get help is a dumb motherfucker, just because he got lucky with a dry bite doesnât make him any less dumb
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u/kslusherplantman Dec 08 '22
I donât remember the exact stats, but many snake bites are dry and donât contain venom.
More of a warning, less of Iâm gonna kill you.
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u/NeatNuts Dec 08 '22
Venom is very expensive to make, in terms of the animalsâ bodily resources
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u/J-Love-McLuvin Dec 08 '22 •
And thatâs not even taking inflation into consideration.
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u/kissingdistopia Dec 08 '22 •
Venom? In this economy?
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u/Fantara22 Dec 08 '22
Youâd be out of work in a weeks time!
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u/DiabloSixSixtySix Dec 08 '22
Mom: no, we have venom at home.
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u/Bing-o Dec 08 '22
It's the Venezuelan equivalent to the cost of a bullet and how much you'd be paid for a semi professional hit.
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u/DontBeSoFingLiteral Dec 08 '22
Iâve been chuckling all day, at this comment. A bitter snake, fimping a cig and hissing that out.
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u/komei888 Dec 08 '22
So you're telling me, this man wasn't worth the antivenom?
Still seeking the answer....did this or did this man receive antivenom?
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u/NeatNuts Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
No, Iâm saying animals donât always inject venom when they bite
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u/CL3WL3SS Dec 08 '22
25% or so...also 25% chance of a overdose.
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u/grammar_fixer_2 Dec 08 '22 •
an*
If you have a vowel or vowel sound, then youâd use âanâ.
If it is a consonant, then it is an âaâ.
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u/BrotherickProgs Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
I'm no expert, but a snake stressed and coiled around a leg while being handled seems very unlikely to give a dry bite.
Edit: I'm not saying a dry bite isn't a good explanation. But it could be that the dry bite is involuntary, like if the glands were removed, for example.
A snake that aggressive in a situation that stressful already made the choice to fight, because flight isn't an option.
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u/kslusherplantman Dec 08 '22
And yet this guy survived a bite that would kill a grown elephant a few times over? Without antivenin?
These are the most toxic snake not in Australia IIRC
Dry bite is the safest bet
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u/TimeForADoOver Dec 08 '22
I'm not sure why people are questioning this. It's a Black Mamba, he's alive without antivenom. It's a dry bite, a well documented and not uncommon phenomenon.
Black Mamba's are often references as the most lethal snake on the planet due to the high recorded insistence of death. While other snakes are more venomous, barely, the Black Mamba is the best at *killing people* out of the all of the other snakes on the planet on a per bite ratio.
So yeah, probably a dry bite. It needs that to eat.
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u/Swockie Dec 08 '22
Yeah why are people questioning things on reddit. Everything is true!
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u/Tel-aran-rhiod Dec 08 '22
So as an Australian, the thing is people tend to overestimate how deadly snake bites statistically are in this day and age. 20 of the 25 most venomous snakes (including the entire top 10-11 IIRC) are here in Australia. Around the country there are about 3000 snake bites each year, but only 13% of bites end up requiring antivenom, and out of all those 3000 bites, only about 2 people actually die. Sure, an inland taipan's bite has enough venom to literally kill 100 grown men. But despite people having been bitten by them, nobody has died yet.
Not to say that snakes aren't dangerous and don't deserve respect and caution. But just for perspective
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u/AFriendOfTheBees Dec 08 '22
Nobody has ever died of inland taipan venom since colonisation. Inland taipans are very timid, skittish animals with a lot of speed on them, which they use to get the fuck out of there when they see a human coming. They are extremely reluctant to bite and have a high likelihood of dry biting if they do. This is fortunate, as inland taipan venom is so toxic and produced in such small quantities that it's not currently possible to make an antivenom for it - instead, the antivenom made for coastal taipans is used because it has considerable cross-reactivity with inland taipan proteins.
The protocol for making taipan antivenom is to inject a horse or cow with coastal taipan venom and then collect the antibodies from its blood. Unfortunately, inland taipans are extremely hard to keep alive in captivity, very very very toxic, and tend not to produce very much venom because it's highly concentrated. This combination is extremely hard to make antivenom for. Even if you catch one, it'll probably die; even if it doesn't die, it probably won't produce enough venom; and even if it makes enough venom, there's a good chance the venom will just kill the animal you're trying to harvest antivenom from. So... they don't bother trying. Coastal taipans are much easier to keep alive, especially under the conditions that are required of venom harvesting, and produce larger amounts of less concentrated venom. They're also easier to breed!
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u/kernich Dec 08 '22
This guy knows taipans
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u/AFriendOfTheBees Dec 08 '22
I'm a hobby herper in a country with taipans, I need to be aware of how my snakes work lol.
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u/HexesAndHos Dec 08 '22
Black Mamba bites without antivenin are nearly always fatal. Of the two other cases I found without antivenin administered one was put in a medically induced coma and the other needed mechanical intubation. Even people who get antivenin sometimes die because they just aren't able to get it quick enough.
From what I read Black Mambas are less likely than other venomous snakes to dry bite. Dry bites are still animal bites so bleeding, swelling, nausea and all that would still be present. It's understandable someone might think they got envenomated because of that but with this particular snake he would have been dead before day.
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u/Iamnotburgerking Dec 08 '22
Black mambas are an exception to this-if you terrify them enough to the point they bite, theyâll usually inject some venom. Not even close to the full dose, but even a small amount can kill with this species.
There is a reason this is one of only three cases where someone survived a black mamba bite without medical treatment. All the other cases werenât dry bites.
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u/LGodamus Dec 08 '22
There have been way more than 3 people survive black mamba bites without treatment. Before antivenin was even available death from bites was about 1 in 4.
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u/Puzzled_Bath_984 Dec 08 '22
Definitely a mix of 1 & 3 at the very least.
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Dec 08 '22
Let's also not pretend he "happened" to catch this photo with a snake grabber... Seems weird
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u/NonJuanDon Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
Yeah I'd guess this was a dry bite.. so yes, number 3. There are many cases where a venomous snake bites, but doesn't actually inject venom.. Being a snake's most precious and finite resource, most conserve their venom for defense and ofc hunting.
For example.. rattlesnakes when encountered in the wild, will usually first rely on their camouflage to hide from you, then if you get closer, they'll rattle loudly to warn you that you're in their space. They'll most often also simultaneously try to back away, usually only choosing to strike or bite if you continue to bother them, step on/near them accidentally, or try to pick them up/harass them.
In some cases, people like that moron in the picture just get lucky. Perhaps the snake's venom is spent from taking down large prey/multiple prey animals.. or they just win the figurative lottery and for whatever reason they get bitten but not envenomated.
Source: Kept venomous snakes and did field photography of reptiles since I was about 15 years old. I've actually personally known more than one person that this has happened to.. albeit with rattlers/vipers. Would be a touch scarier with a mamba or most other exotic elapids though lol..
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u/HexesAndHos Dec 08 '22
Snakes also replenish their energy/calories at a far slower rate than people and other mammals. I think people who don't interact with snakes regularly underestimate just how conservative they are with their energy.
Sorry to tack on, snakes are just so fascinating.
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u/CreatureWarrior Dec 08 '22
I'm curious, how do they get more venom if it's so taxing on their bodies? Does one bite equal no bites / self-defense for like two months or does the replenishing simply make them more tired?
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u/technoman88 Dec 08 '22
They usually don't inject their whole supply. So even if you antagonize a wild one. It will usually have enough venom to go kill some prey and replenish its energy and venom.
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u/AFriendOfTheBees Dec 08 '22
Mambas are very active snakes. They're constantly moving, and don't just sit there like a viperid would. They're less conservative with their energy than you'd think, especially if you're comparing them to something like a gaboon viper which will literally sit unmoving for 2 straight weeks. They also use predator-approach deterrence, which means they're already more ready to bite because they're more likely to have to.
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u/CreatureWarrior Dec 08 '22
rattlesnakes when encountered in the wild, will usually first rely on their camouflage to hide from you, then if you get closer, they'll rattle loudly to warn you that you're in their space. They'll most often also simultaneously try to back away, usually only choosing to strike or bite if you continue to bother them, step on/near them accidentally, or try to pick them up/harass them.
Is there a specific way to walk away? Do you just walk / run away normally or is it one of those situations where you have to walk very slowly while keeping a close eye on the snake?
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u/Give_her_the_beans Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
These are what I was taught. I grew up in the forests in Florida where we've got a few venomous snakes. Note, I still consider myself a novice. If someone else with more experience chimes in, listen to them. :) Sorry about grammar and spelling. I'm pretty horrible at it. Lol
If you know it's a rattler- Don't try to move it. If you think your far enough away, you aren't. Back away slowly if you're on it. (like looking in a gopher tortoise burrow and seeing a snake, ask me how I know lol) Don't ever try to step over the snake.
Another I'd add is adopting mindset that every snake is venomous. If you do that, and act appropriately, you won't accidentally get yourself bit.
Other precautions for IDing venomous snakes are -
Don't use rhymes. It's possible you forget the rhyme and/or the snakes in another area might not match what you know.
Don't go by the head. Many non venomous snakes flatten theirs out, some venomous snakes have round heads (eastern coral for example)
Don't use patterns. Snakes color/patterns vary. I've seen nearly all black water moccasins. If novices try to ID them by only the bullseye pattern, they're gonna have a bad time. Also patterns can be different from normal for many reasons, genetic issues, (albinoisim or melanistic, anerythristic for example) hybridization, or even area specific (some coral snakes near me hardly have yellow even though the rhyme mentions it)
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I like to use coral and moccasins because thats what I know and have seen variations of personally but I'm sure there's examples of those things in other types as well. Definitely learn the snakes around you just in case you ever need an ID, but please don't try to touch anything without a professional near.
Don't kill them either please.
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u/SerTidy Dec 08 '22
Interesting read, thanks. I visited Arizona a few years ago to do some photography, my buddy who lived there warned me about rattlesnakes and told me how to be sensible when in their environment. Yâknow, if climbing rocks, careful where you put your hands. I didnât expect to see one, but sure enough a juvenile western diamondback appeared close to where we stopped to shoot some pics. Jury was out of it was a young WDb or a more dangerous Mojave rattlesnake. Snakes are beautiful, and facinate me, but scare the life out of me too. Mambas look elegant and deadly, but rattlesnakes just look mean. lol Again thanks for the read.
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u/Honest-Yogurt4126 Dec 08 '22
How long ago were you 15?
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u/NonJuanDon Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
Much longer ago than I'd like to admit..
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u/I_LOVE_BATHBOMBS Dec 08 '22
Based on your profile I'm guessing you are in the late thirties to mid forties. Am I correct?
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u/NonJuanDon Dec 08 '22
Yep, 35 actually. I take it you're a tool and/or FFVII fan or know someone who is lol?
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u/veltche9364 Dec 08 '22
Lol I thought you were callin the other dude a âtoolâ but you meant a Tool fan đ
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u/NonJuanDon Dec 08 '22
Yes lol.. although in all fairness, one COULD argue that many (or all) of us tool fans are, in fact, at least slightly insufferable tools, ourselves..
And judging by the username, I suspect she's a chick, not a dude. But then again, who doesn't love bathbombs..
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u/mike_stb123 Dec 08 '22
Given the fact the guy is known to be a jerk, and the bite was conveniently photographed, and he conveniently dint go to the hospital, I would not be surprised if the snake venom was drained before the bite.
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u/Opposite-Garbage-869 Dec 08 '22
Seems to be a dry bite. Otherwise he wouldn't be alive.
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u/Sea_Handle_9561 Dec 08 '22
Or a dry bite. Snakes don't always use venom. Sometimes they bite if they're annoyed, but don't feel threatened. It's more of a warning.
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u/the_whole_arsenal Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
You don't go to a place where they keep black mambas, get bit, have other people see it, and decide to just though it out. I call bullshit. They would have at least taken him to the hospital.
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u/DiabloSerpentino Dec 08 '22
Agreed. I've worked with snakes all my life (professionally, for the last 40+ years), and the Black Mamba is one of the most feared venomous snakes amongst professionals. In other words, people who KNOW snakes hate dealing with these animals.
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u/Honest-Yogurt4126 Dec 08 '22
So is it the aggressiveness (plus toxicity) that makes them so feared?
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u/djauralsects Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
Mambas are an intellegent, agile and anxious species. They are also one of the longest venomous snakes. A snake's striking range is roughly a third of it's body length. Tongs and snake sticks should be longer than the striking range of the species you're working with, this can be cumbersome and impractical with a snake as long as a Mamba.
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u/Regalia_BanshEe Dec 08 '22
They are also the fastest snakes afaik
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u/muhaski Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
2nd fastest after the King Cobra. I'm seeing conflicting info though.
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u/Hardmeat_McLargehuge Dec 08 '22
King cobras donât zoom. Mambas are the fastest, closely followed by common browns. Insanely quick snakes
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u/WalrusSquare247 Dec 08 '22
Actually, crotalus cerastes, aka the sidewinder, is a species of pit viper that can reach seeds of 29 km/h, whereas the dendroaspis polylepis, the black mamba, can only reach speeds of upto 20 km/h, making the sidewinder the fastest snake.
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u/Twizzlers_and_donuts Dec 08 '22
So Iâve heard some snakes can do a dry bite where they donât inject venom. Is the black mamba one that is able to do this or are you just gunna get venom every time?
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u/LGodamus Dec 08 '22
All venomous snakes âcanâ dry bite. The species and individual snakes temperament will determine âifâ they dry bite. Black mambas have a bad reputation for being pretty grumpy and many of them wonât dry bite and often actually bite multiple times in a row in rapid succession.
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u/olderaccount Dec 08 '22
Some species have a lot more control over venom delivery than others. In many species, the muscles that close the jaws during the strike are the same ones that squeeze the venom glands. So it can be difficult for the sanke to do a dry bite even if it wants to.
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u/Thecleaner1975 Dec 08 '22
Would you be more afraid of a Black Mamba or a Fer de Lance?
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u/dumbest-smart-guy1 Dec 08 '22
Black mamba for sure. Their venom is highly neurotoxic whereas fer-de-lance venom is mainly hemotoxic.
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u/schweez Dec 08 '22
Thereâs a snake hook at his feet. It looks like heâs one of these âwildlife photographersâ who like to disturb animals to stage a picture. He was probably trying to provoke the snake to take a cool picture. Hopefully, he learned his lesson that you should leave wild animals alone.
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u/peace_love_bananas Dec 08 '22
Yeah I mean these snakes are as venomous as they come and it looks like he was in a controlled environment since he had a snake handling hook
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u/djbow Dec 08 '22
And the fact he's clearing doing a photo shoot with it. Sounds like he may have been underprepared
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u/mikeu Dec 08 '22
You also donât go to a place where they keep black mambas with your shorts on instead of pantsâŠ
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u/Next_Boysenberry1414 Dec 08 '22
Didn't Realize he Captured the Event
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u/the_whole_arsenal Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
Yeah, I get he didn't realize he got the pic. Congratulations. The guy knew he got bit, he even said he saw he was bleeding profusely. He then said didn't seek medical attention. It like saying I got a picture of when a bullet struck my torso, but didn't seek medical attention. Nobody is talking about the picture, they are talking about the potentially life ending event that didn't seek medical attention for, that he knew happened.
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
I think Mark Laita may be telling a little bit of a fib.
It's really unlikely that he would survive with urgent medical treatment let alone without antivenom. if it had venom glands and how did he just manage to accidentally take a photo of his legs at the moment yet still not realise he got bitten, even though he was bleeding profusely.
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u/the_whole_arsenal Dec 08 '22
Agreed
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/PainManagement/story?id=4521055&page=1
"the black mamba's poison goes straight for the nerves, attacking the central nervous system and shutting down major organs. Twenty minutes after being bitten you may be lose the ability to talk. After one hour you're probably comatose, and by six hours, without an antidote, you are dead."
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22
I watched a documentary about them and they discussed a case where a guy in a university had the black mambas tooth scrape his thumb, didn't realise it would even be considered a bit and he died within 20 minutes. They're incredibly deadly.
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u/Josephstalinssmegma Dec 08 '22
Thatâs what happened to my former boss. During venom extraction a fang scraped his thumb. 20 min later he was showing signs of ptosis and a swollen tongue and I had to take him to the hospital. He was out two hours later with antivenin though. Modern antivenin is pretty fantastic. Especially the African polyvalent.
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22
Good to hear! Glad he was ok!!
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u/Josephstalinssmegma Dec 08 '22
Iâm more mad at him for fucking up my lunch. It was general tsoâs chicken that dayâŠ
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u/Renegadegold Dec 08 '22
Oh what was the doc?
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22
I've been trying to remember all day. Something about deadliest snakes, I'm sure. I'll let you know if I find it!
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Dec 08 '22
Adversely, it is possible for a human to survive several bites. This is a very specific case that involved intently building a tolerance, but it does illustrate survival is possible depending on body chemistry.
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22
If it's referring to Tim Friede. He began by giving himself watered down venom increasing the dose to build up a tolerance. He's a bit off the bell curve.
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u/DweadPiwateWoberts Dec 08 '22
I spent the last years building up an immunity to iocaine powder
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Dec 08 '22
Yes, I did try to frame my comment to reflect that. In all likely the guy in the picture just got a dry bite.
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u/LakeLov3r Dec 08 '22
I really like this source for information on the Black Mamba. Start around 0:55
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u/griever48 Dec 08 '22
Gotta love that good ol snake poison
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u/WhosThatGrilll Dec 08 '22
Seriously. How does one get to the point where theyâre paid to write an article about venomous snakes and not understand the difference between venom and poison?
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u/arex75 Dec 08 '22
Just based on the title of this post I don't see anything that says he didn't realize he got bit
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22
I looked further into it and in the article I found it said he didn't. But it's the daily mail so it could just be poor sensationalist writing
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u/Ok-Software-1902 Dec 08 '22
It was a dry bite. When snakes bite, they donât always inject venom, since itâs very energetically costly to produce. Dry bites are kind of like a bluff; they go through the motion, sink the fangs in, but they donât inject anything. That way, they can save their venom for when a real threat comes along. Apparently, this mamba didnât think Mark was worth it.
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u/FlameHawkfish88 Dec 08 '22
I mean, maybe, but I just don't believe this guy.
Dry bites in black mambas are recorded to be pretty rare. They produce large amounts of venom (up 400mg) and it's really potent, they only need about 15mg to kill prey, so they don't really need to conserve their venom.
They're not as aggressive as people believe and the fact there's a hook under the snakes neck in the photo I really wonder what actually went on .
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u/Knoaf Dec 08 '22
Dry bite. Venom takes a lot for a snake to produce. They need that for prey
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u/princess_pippy Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
He let the snake bite him because he knew it had no venom glands. This calm demeanour makes no sense otherwise.
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u/ReallyNotATrollAtAll Dec 08 '22
Exactly. He knew exactly which sanke it is and pribably had its venom removed. Hes a dumb idiot just for making things up
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u/Just-Lie-3360 Dec 08 '22
Black Mamba is one of the most venomous snakes in the world and is the most feared snake in Africa. He did not survive without anti-venom unless it's venom glands were removed.
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u/hollyj81 Dec 08 '22
Wasn't he photographing numerous venomous snakes a for a book? To me, I think he knew what he was doing the entire time. When I first heard about it. I looked it up and wanted to buy the book. This stuff sells. Careless publicity stunt in my opinion.
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u/Long__Jump Dec 08 '22
Can't these snakes dry bite?
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u/spider2544 Dec 08 '22
Ive heard of these snakes just scraping their teeth on someone being enough to kill a person. A normal bite from them is enough to kill a fucking elephant. I cant imagine someone gambling like the title says with a fucking black mamba they are so exceptionally dangerous a drop of their venom is more than enough to kill you dead in just a few hours.
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u/-Alter-Reality- Dec 08 '22
I heard about this guy Chuck Norris.
The snake died about a week later.
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u/streetsworth Dec 08 '22
Is that mark laita from YouTube channel soft white underbelly?
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u/mouthmechanic Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
I grew up in a region infested with these things. Iâm terrified of snakes and so is everyone Iâve known growing up. Weâre taught to run like hell when you see ANY snake and killing on the spot is encouraged. Then I come to America where people keep these things as pets. No thanks. ~shivers~
Just heard a story from back home recently, 1 mamba killed 3 people. Mother, daughter and son in a single session
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u/Looking_North Dec 08 '22
Mambas wil chase you aswell. Source: grow up in mamba environment.
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u/Thedrunner2 Dec 08 '22
Arenât about 15 percent of snake bites dry?
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u/the_whole_arsenal Dec 08 '22
Here's the thing - you won't know it was a dry bite until it is too late. So, yeah sure it could have been a dry bite, but they wouldn't know it, they would have been freaking out trying to get him medical attention. The whole story sounds unusual.
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u/Josephstalinssmegma Dec 08 '22
Fun thing. Most severe bites all report a strong metallic taste. Especially in elapids. My experience with venom was much more mild (I stepped on a shed fang in my snake room and my foot swelled a bit lol)
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u/Speakslinux Dec 08 '22
Dry bite!!
**EDIT** I just saw others chastised for stating the same. The fact is we know that many times a venomous snake will bite but not inject its venom because it takes a while for it to be replenished. It occurs more often than what you might think.
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u/Burflax Dec 08 '22 edited Dec 08 '22
This picture does seem a lot like those Instagram people who say "oh, my kid accidentally took this picture of me fresh out of bed- no makeup eek!" when it's obvious their already ready for the days.
You "just happened" to be standing where there are Black Mambas and just happened to be holding the camera so itd be taking a picture of your legs and you and the snake " just happene" an to perform unnecessary physical movement at the exact same time?
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u/Separate_News_7886 Dec 08 '22
Where is he at ? Because that doesnât look like wild where youâd get caught by surprise to be close enough to get bit
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u/SpaceshipEarth10 Dec 08 '22
Venom is expensive to make. Sometimes a snake will bit without releasing venom.
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u/macjihad Dec 08 '22
His You Tube channel Soft White Underbelly is in equal measure very interesting and extremely sad. He interviews American's on the fringes of society, like people on skid row, abuse survivors etc. Some real eye opening shit. Admittedly he does a fair amount of virtue signalling in some of the videos but it really shines a light on the disadvantaged.
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u/SweetBunny420 Dec 08 '22
How do you not know you've been bitten? This guy is saying he only learned it after he already recovered? Dude, it causes difficulty breathing in half an hour and requires 10-15 whole vials of snake antivenom to recover.
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u/Other_Cod_8361 Dec 08 '22
It might be possible that the snake shot its venom load into something and the glands were empty. Or it had its venom glands removed entirely.
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u/u_190 Dec 08 '22
Looks like he's standing on the edge of a building and it looks like it's a looong way down.
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u/RamblingSimian Dec 08 '22
It kinda does, but I believe he was trying to use that as the background for the photo.
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u/GpRaMMeR21 Dec 08 '22
If he survives without anti venom the snake gave him a dry bite..which Iâm not a expert by any means but I donât think black mambaâs are that nice đ
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u/Legitimate_Web_7245 Dec 08 '22
Isn't he the guy that does "soft white underbelly" on youtube?